The Mises Community
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

Is There a Federal Law that Punishes Anyone or Organization for Issuing Their Own Currency?

rated by 0 users
Answered (Not Verified) This post has 0 verified answers | 18 Replies | 6 Followers

Top 150 Contributor
184 Posts
Points 4,780
limitgov posted on Sat, Mar 28 2009 7:24 PM

How exactly does the federal reserve have a monopoly on our currency?

Do they punish anyone or any organization that issues competing currenices?

 

 

  • | Post Points: 65

All Replies

Top 75 Contributor
Male
472 Posts
Points 8,810

Good question. I'm not an American so I don't know your laws. But I know for a fact that:

  • you are legally bound to accept FR notes if they are offered as settlement of debt
  • there are capital gains taxes on potential sound monies
  • you have to pay your taxes in FR notes

The last point is particularly important. Imagine the following conversation with the taxman:

IRS: "How many dollars did you earn last year?"

You: "None."

IRS: "None? How did you survive?"

You: "Well, me and a few friends; a carpenter, a builder, a dentist, a chef, a gardener use our own money called "scribd". We have our own agorist underground. It's great! No inflation, no taxes, very liquid, and totally discreet."

IRS: *calls police*

Austrians do it a priori

Irish Liberty Forum 

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 100 Contributor
283 Posts
Points 5,325

Better answers will follow below (or even above now, since I was slow), but in the mean time, I'd just want to point out that if you don't pay your TAXES in the currency your government dictates that you must pay them in, then you will be in a w0rld of s1ht!

 That takes it very far on the way of being the one feasible dominating currency. If one runs a shop selling goods, and is forced to pay a VAT percentage on every sale, and a profit tax percentage on every gain, in dollar, then it'd be impractical to allow ones customers to pay in any other currency. Then one wouldn't just buy and sell goods, but be running a currency exchange service too, and that's maybe not ones core competence, since one actually just want to run a goods shop.

 I'm convinced that tax laws are cruical for the existence of fiat money. Without taxes it would be very difficult for government to enforce use of its fiat currency. And then the particular tax laws which exempt debt payments to lenders from "profit" tax, but not dividend payments to equity holders, further accelerate the FRB system.

Tax goes hand in hand with fiat/FRB/debt!

It's not fascism when the government does it.

“We must spend now as an investment for the future.” - President Obama

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
472 Posts
Points 8,810

Indeed, ProudCapitalist.

IIRC, the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act passed in the same year - 1913.

Coincidence?

Austrians do it a priori

Irish Liberty Forum 

 

  • | Post Points: 50
Top 75 Contributor
439 Posts
Points 7,295

Correct, fiat money does not work without taxation.  With a tax the government has a catchall "evading taxes" law with which to prevent any competition.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
1,305 Posts
Points 23,565

MatthewWilliam:

Indeed, ProudCapitalist.

IIRC, the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act passed in the same year - 1913.

Coincidence?

 Yes. There was income tax way before 1913, since the war of northern aggression.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
352 Posts
Points 5,500
jimmy replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 2:34 AM

scineram:
Yes. There was income tax way before 1913, since the war of northern aggression.

And there were monkeys in the Congo. I'm quite good at this - we should chat some time.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
108 Posts
Points 2,460
Suggested by DASawyer

US Code, Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 25,

 

§ 486. Uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal

Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
29 Posts
Points 370
fuman replied on Tue, Mar 31 2009 10:21 AM

Like others have said, the Fed has a monopoly because of taxes, and they have a little thing on their currency that says it is good for all debts public and private. You can issue your own currency, and they can not go after you for it, but getting others to find value in it is tricky. There will be an exchange rate, or what is the point to having your own currency. There is a town in Iowa named Vedic City created by the Maharishi that started their own currency. I do not know if they still use it or if they went back to the dollar, but basically their currency is only good in their city and they need regular dollars when they deal with anyone outside of their city.

On the other hand, just about anything can be a competing or substitute currency. When you do something for trade, those become currency. There is always the tax issue though.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 150 Contributor
184 Posts
Points 4,780

If issuing your own currency itself is not illegal, why did they confiscate and force the people who made the Ron Paul gold coin dollar to stop?

  • | Post Points: 50
Top 500 Contributor
Male
97 Posts
Points 1,610

MatthewWilliam:

Indeed, ProudCapitalist.

IIRC, the income tax and the Federal Reserve Act passed in the same year - 1913.

Coincidence?

Wow, no wonder 13 is such an unlucky number.

BTW, I am envisioning a future in which the main currency of choice is frequent flyer miles.

The Rev

Lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it

Life's a laugh and death's a joke, it's true

Just remember it's all a show, keep em laughing as you go

Just remember that the last laugh is on you

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
29 Posts
Points 370
fuman replied on Sat, Apr 4 2009 1:40 PM

limitgov:

If issuing your own currency itself is not illegal, why did they confiscate and force the people who made the Ron Paul gold coin dollar to stop?

My bet would be because of the marketing of the dollar and the government took the view that they are presenting it as official US currency. I know they are not, but it all depends on the presentation. The real sticking point is on the top of their site where they call it America's Inflation Proof Currency. It would be hard or impossible for the government to legally stop you from issueing a town or state currency that was marketed as non official currency or just a subsistute currency for that area.

I also think Ron Paul and his supporters scare the hell out of the government and they want to suppress and disenfranchise them. People who want actual freedom scare those who want power.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
112 Posts
Points 1,315
It seems the law only bans private coinage. However, the Secret Service has been known to bust makers of pink dollar-looking slips of paper. Granted people don't pay much attention to the currency, I highly doubt a pink slip of paper would slip by(real bucks are made from preworn denim and fresh linen).

Keynes must've been a fan of Brave New World; why else would he write a book about its economics?

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
439 Posts
Points 7,295

fuman:
It would be hard or impossible for the government to legally stop you from issueing a town or state currency

 

they can stop you easily.  all they have to do is force you to account for everything in US dollars for tax purposes.  if you refuse you are arrested for tax evasion.  if you comply...well everyone who uses the currency has to keep track of the exchange rate of your dollars to US dollars and then calcualate taxes based on that.  Who is going to do that?

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
29 Posts
Points 370
fuman replied on Sun, Apr 5 2009 9:17 AM

I mentioned earlier that taxes are going to be the problem, which is why those who have keep it at a 1 to 1 with the dollar or some simple multiple, making it just an alternate instead of a replacement currency.No on e said that creating your own currency with a changing exchange rate was going to be easy, and that might be why people have not done it. That is the difference between possible and probable.

The easiest would be to pull a John Galt and start a society out of view of the government and then make your own currency. Or take over your own island nation and make your ideal society.

  • | Post Points: 20
Page 1 of 2 (19 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS

Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528

Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119

contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises

Mises.org sitemap