krazy kaju: Marko:Does that mean Hoppe belives the Jews killed Jesus? (Sorry for sidestepping again, but khmm...) Jeesh, someone didn't go to Sunday school. Remember how Pontius Pilate put Jesus and that other dude in front of the crowd and let them choose which one will die? Pontius Pilate even fought to keep Jesus alive.
Marko:Does that mean Hoppe belives the Jews killed Jesus? (Sorry for sidestepping again, but khmm...)
Jeesh, someone didn't go to Sunday school. Remember how Pontius Pilate put Jesus and that other dude in front of the crowd and let them choose which one will die? Pontius Pilate even fought to keep Jesus alive.
Warning off-topic tangent.
The choice between Jesus Christ and the "robber" Barbaras was a choice between two messianic figures. Barbaras was desrcibed to be a "robber" in John 18:40; however, to truly understand who he is it is necessary to understand that in the Greek the Gospels were written in "robber" had become synonymmous for "resistence fighter" thanks to the political climate of Judea at that time. Also, his name "Barbaras" means "son of the father" (up until the third century Jesus himself was referred to Jesus Barbaras - Jesus son of the Father), and when Matthew 27:16 refers to him as "a notorious prisoner" it is easy to conclude that Barbaras was a prominant leader of the resistence fighters.
Ergo, the choice between Jesus and Barbaras represents a choice between a Messiah who promises freedom through a self-won armed struggle that promises not only freedom but a real kingdom of this earth, while Jesus represents self-sacrifice, and suffering as the only way to achieve true life.
I am becoming a Burkean Whig.
- F.A. Hayek
Saiphes: I've had an urge to pick up the Rothbard "Enemy of the State" Tee... even though I usually don't wear Tees. I love the resemblance to various Gene Hackman characters especially. I wonder if that was intentional.
I've had an urge to pick up the Rothbard "Enemy of the State" Tee... even though I usually don't wear Tees. I love the resemblance to various Gene Hackman characters especially. I wonder if that was intentional.
I wear that shirt all the time. One of my favorites.
Here's one idea I have: choose about four or five of your favorite pamphlets at isil.org and order a hundred of them. Then, order a hundred of the Campaign for Liberty recruitment brochures (seen here. Now, get about five members of your local libertarian party or some other liberty-minded people to pass these pamphlets out and buy them all the Campaign for Liberty polos (they look nice, creating a good impression) to wear when they pass out the pamphlets.
Here's the battle plan: you and the others choose a neighborhood. Every weekend you go door to door to a hundred houses to pass out the pamphlets you chose. Since you chose about four or five pamphlets, it should take you four or five weekends. Hopefully, at least five people are interested in your ideas. When you're done passing out those pamphlets, go door to door passing out the Campaign for Liberty brochures.
You should be able to convert at least some people at a relatively low cost ($25 for pamphlets + $17 for brochures + $125 for shirts + shipping costs + time). You can then repeat the process, which will be cheaper since you won't have to pay for the shirts. If you really want to go extravagant, buy a few books like Ron Paul's The Revolution: A Manifesto and A Foreign Policy of Freedom as well as a few others like Callahan's Economics for Real People and Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson and loan these books to the newbies you convert. An even more extravagant scheme would be renting some commercial space in order to create a little Campaign for Liberty focal point where you could try to attract converts, similar to Scientology churches (but better!).
Ron Paul conservatism is the gateway drug to minarchism and eventually anarchism, so we really should get working on this.
laminustacitus: krazy kaju: Marko:Does that mean Hoppe belives the Jews killed Jesus? (Sorry for sidestepping again, but khmm...) Jeesh, someone didn't go to Sunday school. Remember how Pontius Pilate put Jesus and that other dude in front of the crowd and let them choose which one will die? Pontius Pilate even fought to keep Jesus alive. Warning off-topic tangent. The choice between Jesus Christ and the "robber" Barbaras was a choice between two messianic figures. Barbaras was desrcibed to be a "robber" in John 18:40; however, to truly understand who he is it is necessary to understand that in the Greek the Gospels were written in "robber" had become synonymmous for "resistence fighter" thanks to the political climate of Judea at that time. Also, his name "Barbaras" means "son of the father" (up until the third century Jesus himself was referred to Jesus Barbaras - Jesus son of the Father), and when Matthew 27:16 refers to him as "a notorious prisoner" it is easy to conclude that Barbaras was a prominant leader of the resistence fighters. Ergo, the choice between Jesus and Barbaras represents a choice between a Messiah who promises freedom through a self-won armed struggle that promises not only freedom but a real kingdom of this earth, while Jesus represents self-sacrifice, and suffering as the only way to achieve true life.
I'm aware that the choice was between two Messiahs, yet that doesn't change the fact that Jesus was killed by democracy. And it's only a joke so... lol.
Mises Community Natural Rights Discussion Group
krazy kaju:I'm aware that the choice was between two Messiahs, yet that doesn't change the fact that Jesus was killed by democracy. And it's only a joke so... lol.
Thus the off-topic tangent. It wasn't an insult to anyone's intelligence, just something interesting.
1. Research propaganda, mob psychology, and advertising - reasoned debate is satisfying, but very few get excited about it.
2. Invent an enjoyable game with a subtext. It's amazing what people will absorb while they think they're having fun.
3. Catchy and amusing bumper stickers, buttons, and t-shirts - the more amusing, the more effective. Lots of people pointed out the problems with the Church - George Carlin made it funny, and people actually listened. A bumper sticker on your car is seen by how many people every day? If it catches their attention, it'll be effective.
4. Condense lengthy to concise, even pithy. If you're having a deep, lenghty conversation at a bar or in a line, nobody will notice - but let them overhear "Nobody ever spent themselves out of financial trouble" or "how come kiting checks only works when governments do it?", and they'll start thinking. Getting them to start thinking along those lines is the hard part, but the only part that's needed to be effective.
5. Any musicians out there? The songs of the socialist/populist movement in the 1920s were remarkably effective.
6. Small, local newspapers are always on the lookout for submissions. If you can report on an event of local importance, you can point out the parts you think are relevant.
7. Most of all, entertain 'em. You can have remarkable sway over people you're entertaining, and you're very likely to have their attention to the degree that they're enjoying it.
Danno, thinking that the psych background wasn't wasted, after all.
The avatar graphic text:
"Are you coming to bed?"
"No, this is important"
"What?"
"Someone is wrong on the internet."
Danno: 1. Research propaganda, mob psychology, and advertising - reasoned debate is satisfying, but very few get excited about it. 2. Invent an enjoyable game with a subtext. It's amazing what people will absorb while they think they're having fun. 3. Catchy and amusing bumper stickers, buttons, and t-shirts - the more amusing, the more effective. Lots of people pointed out the problems with the Church - George Carlin made it funny, and people actually listened. A bumper sticker on your car is seen by how many people every day? If it catches their attention, it'll be effective. 4. Condense lengthy to concise, even pithy. If you're having a deep, lenghty conversation at a bar or in a line, nobody will notice - but let them overhear "Nobody ever spent themselves out of financial trouble" or "how come kiting checks only works when governments do it?", and they'll start thinking. Getting them to start thinking along those lines is the hard part, but the only part that's needed to be effective. 5. Any musicians out there? The songs of the socialist/populist movement in the 1920s were remarkably effective. 6. Small, local newspapers are always on the lookout for submissions. If you can report on an event of local importance, you can point out the parts you think are relevant. 7. Most of all, entertain 'em. You can have remarkable sway over people you're entertaining, and you're very likely to have their attention to the degree that they're enjoying it. Danno, thinking that the psych background wasn't wasted, after all.
I agree a 100% with Danno.
I have a suggestion as far as the Mises's literary and store section goes. Unless I am unaware of the current situation with the aforementioned, I believe the only tongue that Austrian literature can be read in the literary section, and sold in the store section, is in English. Well, why don't we begin translating the definitive works and shorter texts into other languages? I know it would take time and much effort, but it would widen our audience.
krazy kaju: Here's one idea I have: choose about four or five of your favorite pamphlets at isil.org and order a hundred of them. Then, order a hundred of the Campaign for Liberty recruitment brochures (seen here. Now, get about five members of your local libertarian party or some other liberty-minded people to pass these pamphlets out and buy them all the Campaign for Liberty polos (they look nice, creating a good impression) to wear when they pass out the pamphlets. Here's the battle plan: you and the others choose a neighborhood. Every weekend you go door to door to a hundred houses to pass out the pamphlets you chose. Since you chose about four or five pamphlets, it should take you four or five weekends. Hopefully, at least five people are interested in your ideas. When you're done passing out those pamphlets, go door to door passing out the Campaign for Liberty brochures. You should be able to convert at least some people at a relatively low cost ($25 for pamphlets + $17 for brochures + $125 for shirts + shipping costs + time). You can then repeat the process, which will be cheaper since you won't have to pay for the shirts. If you really want to go extravagant, buy a few books like Ron Paul's The Revolution: A Manifesto and A Foreign Policy of Freedom as well as a few others like Callahan's Economics for Real People and Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson and loan these books to the newbies you convert. An even more extravagant scheme would be renting some commercial space in order to create a little Campaign for Liberty focal point where you could try to attract converts, similar to Scientology churches (but better!). Ron Paul conservatism is the gateway drug to minarchism and eventually anarchism, so we really should get working on this.
The biggest flaw here is that pamphlets are relatively long. Very few people on the margins will read them. Now on this thread at the Young Americans for Liberty Forums they posted some posters that are easy to digest and then once viewed could set people in the right direction. At the every least since the posters have no names on it it will make it seem like you are cornering the room, like there are dozens more libertarians around that they haven't met and therefore make the libetarian message seem more significant to your fellows either in your campus or your neighborbhood.
All those who will listen will listen. And those who won't look at a website after seeing a poster imho won't take the time to read a full pamphlet anyhow. Also, these posters drive viewers to Antiwar.com (which could use the extra visits and therefore increased ad money after it nearly didn't pull out the necessary amount from it's fundraising drive) and mises.org which is always educational and helpful.
sirmonty: Saiphes: I've had an urge to pick up the Rothbard "Enemy of the State" Tee... even though I usually don't wear Tees. I love the resemblance to various Gene Hackman characters especially. I wonder if that was intentional. I wear that shirt all the time. One of my favorites.
Same, love it.
The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community.
Great line...
"All those who will listen will listen."
I'm really happy to find this thread. I logged on hoping to find one just like this. I think these are all great ideas. One poster used the term "gateway drug." That is a great term for what we need, and could I suggest that the best gateway drug for most *voting* Americans, is "Sound money". At 51, I guess I am older than most of you, although I am a very young Austrian. Just as this is a key time for Democrats to push through their Socialist agenda, it is also a prime time for friends of liberty to make our point. Many older Americans who have lost a lifetime of savings are now open to the idea that something is fundamentally wrong with our system. Young people, who haven't had time to accumulate enough to have taken a meaningful hit need to be won with theory, but it will be very effective to talk to most folks through their depleted 401ks.
So here's what I am doing. My church has a men's group that is always looking for meeting programs. These are generally older guys, many retired, who are patriotic and caring, but are, by and large, VERY conventional thinkers. I am putting together a short pitch about sound money, and will start, not with von Mises, but with Jefferson and Jackson, and their staunch objection to central banking. Then I'll move on to the theory of money per Mises/Rothbard, and how money "wants" to act, and finally introduce the Austrian school as a topic for further study. Nothing preachy, fairly short, but opening the door to more discussion.
So go out and find men's groups, and women's groups, at churches, community centers, retirement centers, etc. If they are old, and you are young, you will get extra points, for older folks love to see young folks involved, informed, and active. Oh - and try to dress neatly.
By the way - if this presentation sounds interesting to you, I'll post it when I have it ready. In fact, I'd like to hear feedback and criticisms/suggestions for improvement.
Good luck, all!
markb
The most effective way to convert people is to hand out free DVDs of Ron Paul in the Republican primary debates. But I realize this is probably an expensive proposition. However, Ron Paul is the one who got me onto reading the Austrian literature. Before Paul's presidential campaign, I thought Milton Friedman was the guru of modern libertarianism. Now I know better.
markb57:So here's what I am doing. My church has a men's group that is always looking for meeting programs. These are generally older guys, many retired, who are patriotic and caring, but are, by and large, VERY conventional thinkers. I am putting together a short pitch about sound money, and will start, not with von Mises, but with Jefferson and Jackson, and their staunch objection to central banking. Then I'll move on to the theory of money per Mises/Rothbard, and how money "wants" to act, and finally introduce the Austrian school as a topic for further study. Nothing preachy, fairly short, but opening the door to more discussion.
That plan sounds just about perfect for that audience. Well done. Please do post the presentation. We need more local civic engagement like that.
Austrian Theory of the Business Cycle in 9 steps (Soliciting comments)
When one chooses to vote, one also chooses to participate in the political system which is generally 'evil' due to its monopoly on violence which forces or coerces the 'losing' voters to suffer the whims of the 'winning' voters.
When one chooses to become an activist, one never forces another to accept their views but instead allows them the freedom to reason the truth of your argument on their own.
You've had all night and day toConsider and prayYou've brought fire on my head andNow you must pay.
Babylon makes the rules where my people suffer
Ideas-
Call in to talk radio stations, drop some names and quotes. If you've heard mentions of Austrians on Lou Dobbs program that was probably me. Always gets positive feedback, and at least spreads the names out there. Cost = Free.
Do not bicker but enjoy the pluralisms that you share with Objectivists, Constitutionalists, Tea Party people, even Friedmanites. DC libs too. If met with Rush Limbaugh today, I wouldn't yell at him for his partisan Bush support and failed recognition of it. I would add more valid arguments for him. He quotes Hayek, I'll give him some Mises, Rothbard, Hoppe, and Ron Paul stuff too. I don't want more opposition, Id rather use someone else as my own platform.
News paper submissions.
Talk in school. Do not argue. Debate if prompted, but not argue. Ask why? And tell why you question it. Even the far left of teachers enjoy a conversation. It will grab other students interest.
I wear my Mises and Rothbard tees all the time. Once I get I asked "who is that?" they usually become interested.
Meet up with people in person and discuss things like this. Ive contacted C4L people before about helping out with charities before and get ZERO response back. Some help those "state leaders" are. Free publicity.
Ask your political leaders questions or let them know of good people in their area helping. (Ive contacted a mayor and the Gov. of Florida today already. I live in NJ!!)
Do well in your life. Become Doctors, engineers, teachers, shop owners etc... People tend to validate a successful persons voice more.
A bunch of others I'll think of later.
krazy kaju: The Rothbard "Enemy of the State" tee definitely looks good. I'm not too hot about the other ones though. In any case, I'm not sure if wearing a t-shirt is the right way to go. I doubt anyone will see a Ron Paul or a Rothbard t-shirt and then decide to debate you and/or go home and google them. The more traditional door-to-door pamphlet and/or DVD idea seems like a better plan to me.
The Rothbard "Enemy of the State" tee definitely looks good. I'm not too hot about the other ones though. In any case, I'm not sure if wearing a t-shirt is the right way to go. I doubt anyone will see a Ron Paul or a Rothbard t-shirt and then decide to debate you and/or go home and google them. The more traditional door-to-door pamphlet and/or DVD idea seems like a better plan to me.
Just a thought...
I have to say, I have a couple Ron Paul T's and they start conversations everywhere I go. I've talked to people (a lot) at bars, in line at the grocery store, at the place I get my hair cut, etc... I had a conversation with a bartender recently, whom I've known for years but never talked politics with, and it turns out he's a non-voting Libertarian. He had never heard of Ron Paul before. He told me that he wanted to run for public office some day to "tear the whole thing down." He didn't know that I have run for office before so we had quite the chat...
The other goodie's are those little plastic wristbands. They're not as good as a shirt but lots of people will ask what it is about. I was talking to a cashier at the pet store the other day and she asked what mine was for. I told her it was for Freedom. We ended up talking for 15 minutes about the free market because I mentioned that our state (Oregon) is cracking down on "puppy mills." I explained how the consumer and the puppy are both better served by the profit/loss function of the market VS the state coercion which is really only protecting the fringe/criminal element in the breeding industry. A manager and a few other employees were listening and I saw some nodding heads...
Probably considered part of portraying libertarianism in a good way, but we ought to not associate Austrian Economics/Freedom with any unrelated beliefs, such as religion, conspiracy theories, lifestyle, etc.; so as to ensure we make sure our ideology seem open to as many people as possible. Talking specifically with family/friends would also be pretty effective.
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I believe that the YouTube channel called MisesMedia is run by this institute, correct? Well if so, why not become partner with YouTube? It will get some you benefits and publicity on that site which in effect will get you a new audience that would not have gotten otherwise.
Bumper Stickers! Bumper Stickers!
Start a pure market anarchist organisation. I mean when do we get organised and start fighting for our freedom?!
Well, I let my friend borrow How Capitalism Saved America, The Case Against The Fed, Economics in One Lesson, and Deflation and Liberty. He is pretty well converted now.
That, and some other articles on here as well.
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