I was trying to expound on Austrian Economics on another message forum (for INTJs, one of the Jungian personality types) and the thread ended up dying because I was being accused of being insufficiently accepting of other viewpoints and being rude in the process. I disagree but would love it if some other Austrians would review the thread and see where I went wrong. Do I need to tone things down when I talk about this stuff? Was I out of line or are my opponents just pussies?
This will take some time so I appreciate anyone who reads through it. Thanks :)
http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=13300
"He that struggles with us strengthens our nerves, and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper." Edmund Burke
that guy did ad hominem when he said he'd take krugmans ideas over yours because he had a nobel and you didnt. (you could accept the ad hom , and say something about hayek) ;and some posters on that thread clearly dont know about any kind of economics; austrian, neoclassical or otherwise.
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
sorry, Im an INFJ and can't read INTJ.
"The best way to bail out the economy is with liberty, not with federal reserve notes." - pairunoyd
"The vision of the Austrian must be greater than the blindness of the sheeple." - pairunoyd
What's a Jungian personality type?
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
They are personality types (16 in all) based on the works of Carl Jung as refined by Elizabeth Myers-Briggs. The MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator) is a popular system and one that I personally think is very accurate (though opinions are mixed on this).
"that guy did ad hominem when he said he'd take krugmans ideas over yours because he had a nobel and you didnt. (you could accept the ad hom , and say something about hayek) ;and some posters on that thread clearly dont know about any kind of economics; austrian, neoclassical or otherwise."
Yeah, I was hoping to create some converts (which I did, there should be at least one, maybe two, from that thread who will be visiting us here). But learning how to communicate our ideas to non-economists would be very valuable. I thought I was being (mostly) respectful and staying on topic, but everyone complained about my "tone".
Also, I called out the ad hom and it was counterproductive, as I'm sure you'll see.
Wiki: Myers-Briggs Type Indicator
Your tone may have been due to having a greater level of economic competency. Notice how our tones change when we talk to children?
The problem of discussing economics with most people is that most people don't approach such discussions from a scientific perspective. From my experience, most people think I'm giving my "opinion" when I'm just trying to logically deduce the effects of a policy, and they come up with some anecdotal claim that is supposed to disprove my conclusions. If I try to explain why the scientific method doesn't disprove my conclusions they usually just dismiss my arguments as being "purely academic" and "that doesn't work in the real world", usually with some ad hominems such as "you're too young and naive" if they are older than me, or "you're just egoistic", throwing in a "what about the children/poor?".
If on the rare occasion I happen to be speaking to someone who is actually listening to my arguments instead of spending his time trying to figure out whether I'm a "bleeding-heart liberal" or a "capitalist pig", there always seems to be the problem that Austrian economics is very interconnected and I usually end up having to explain all definitions, concepts, laws and connections. This I don't mind, but noone has the capacity to pick up on all that in one conversation, and usually the other person gets understandably bored.
On a somewhat related note, I wonder what personality type most people on this forum are. I've tested as different types many times, but I'm probably an INTP.
INTJ.
To darkness I condemn you...
Your patience with these people is pretty remarkable. I frequently noticed that rather than object to the substance of your arguments, some individuals(Lucid) just attacked your methods. There must be a better way to communicate free market principles.
We should devote our efforts to where they are most effective, and though you may have changed some minds it just seemed painful to explain so much in this forum. You explained a good deal of Austrian theory and you'll be lucky if they take away 1%.
Why change minds when you can bring like-minded individuals together? I'm curious about your opinion on the free state project, and rather than derail the thread feel free to pm me.
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
I don't believe Lucid made a single valid argument in the several pages I read. Pathetic.
Well, when you asked, " ... or are my opponents just pussies", I thought, "oh, boy, my gut is telling me you just might be out of line."
However one thing is for sure:
Lucid isn't.
I read the whole thing. Since Lucid admitted at the end to editing out 'non-pertinent' portions of both his/her own posts and maxpot's posts, I assume I missed the parts where maxpot46 was possibly 'out of line'?
I didn't see much to criticize, in terms of being 'out of line'. Lucid had so many ad-hominem responses that it got extremely tedius.
Jon Irenicus:INTJ.
Same here. I figured this must be common among Austro-libertarians, considering the way this school of thought approaches the world.
Jaycephus:I read the whole thing. Since Lucid admitted at the end to editing out 'non-pertinent' portions of both his/her own posts and maxpot's posts, I assume I missed the parts where maxpot46 was possibly 'out of line'?
Jaycephus:I didn't see much to criticize, in terms of being 'out of line'. Lucid had so many ad-hominem responses that it got extremely tedius.
Great, I thought I was being civil but I just wanted to make sure. I've been accused of being rude in communications in the past, but I thought I'd adjusted my approach enough to compensate that I was surprised for it to come up again. It's good to know it wasn't me this time around. Thanks for the feedback. :)
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