I've always believed that people should be free. Libertarian philosophy seems to match with much of the beliefs that I have. It's the only real political philosophy that makes sense to me.
I just recently realized why economic liberalism is wrong and I realized that libertarianism was the right economic philosophy. I listened to an audiobook about austrian economics (what Henry Haydik and Ludwig Von Mises thought about austrian economics), and so, I believed that influenced me a lot and helped me believe in the free market a whole lot more than as opposed to when I was way more economically to the left and more socialist.
What kinds of things are there that would help get me up to speed? I'm fascinated by libertarian thought and austrian economics. I wish it were more mainstream and that more people cared about freedom and liberty. Suggestions please?
This forum looks great. Can someone also help me around and tell me what I can expect with this forum?
Hi SilentXtarian!
Welcome to the forums.
"What kinds of things are there that would help get me up to speed? "
The foundations of libertarianism and the non aggressiom axiom and Lockean Homesteading private property rights. Stick with those, without violating either and you can't go wrong.
"Can someone also help me around and tell me what I can expect with this forum?"
Check out the "Media" section = full of audiobooks, lectures and a wealth of information that is nearly impossible to come by.
Also the "Literature" section = full of pdf's, entire books for free.
As far as where to start. It depends on what want to know. Take a real good look around the "Media" section and get downloadhelper.net or some other tool, download them, put them on your ipod, mp3 player and let the learning begin.
Let's see, suggested reading.
Austrian economics specifically? Start with "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt and work through Hazlitt's suggested reading list (which of course has "Human Action", "Man, Economy, and State", etc.). Hulsmann's "Mises: The Last Knight of Liberalism", while a biography, seems to be a pretty good intro to the ideas of Mises himself.
Libertarian thought? I personally like Ayn Rand, though some people hate her. I'd read her stuff, especially "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged." You don't need to drink all the Objectivist Kool Aid to appreciate her work.
While I'm sure there will be some people who disagree with me on this, but I'd suggest checking out some agorist literature. It's stuff I only discovered fairly recently, so I'd read Samuel Edward Konkin III's "New Libertarian Manifesto" (by the way, I recommend Murray Rothbard's "For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto" as well) and his recently post humously released "An Agorist Primer" which has a decent summary of Austrian economics.
I also recommend listening to lectures like Mises University and LeFerve Commentaries (which influenced me quite a bit) in the Media section.
In this thread, there is a short reading list further down that might help;
http://mises.org/Community/forums/t/1184.aspx
The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community.
SilentXtarian: I've always believed that people should be free. Libertarian philosophy seems to match with much of the beliefs that I have. It's the only real political philosophy that makes sense to me. I just recently realized why economic liberalism is wrong and I realized that libertarianism was the right economic philosophy. I listened to an audiobook about austrian economics (what Henry Haydik and Ludwig Von Mises thought about austrian economics), and so, I believed that influenced me a lot and helped me believe in the free market a whole lot more than as opposed to when I was way more economically to the left and more socialist. What kinds of things are there that would help get me up to speed? I'm fascinated by libertarian thought and austrian economics. I wish it were more mainstream and that more people cared about freedom and liberty. Suggestions please? This forum looks great. Can someone also help me around and tell me what I can expect with this forum?
I would reccomend reading and listening to Walter Block. He has a very friendly, welcoming style and he really helped me when I first began studying Austrian Economics.
...And nobody has ever taught you how to live out on the street, But now you're gonna have to get used to it...
For economics, read the following books in this order:
Those are probably the 10 best introductory books to Austrian Economics I can suggest.
Other works that I would say are important for libertarian theory are:
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
In addition to the other great suggestions (in particular Giles') also be aware that Mises.org has a home study couse in Economics which includes a lot of the books that people have recommended above, along with a bunch of MP3 recordings of lectures etc. and a genereal reading guide (recommending a 52 week reading schedule to get through it all - which would be a fairly tight schedule to be hones): Home Study Course
Of course, a lot of the material in that course is available for download from Mises.org for free... so another possibility would be to grab yourself an eBook reader like the Kindle or (for non-Americans) the BeBook... but some people just prefer paper.
I myself have never actually read much literature outside of the Mises daily articles and FEE.org articles. I have tried to read some of the books, but since I already understand it most of it, I get bored really quick. I find the best way for me to learn is to just discuss things with other people. I was always very disappointed with my government funded/provided education. They never wanted to discuss anything. No opposing viewpoints were ever allowed. Not so on the internet. As long as you are genuinely interested, you will find a lot of people on this forum that will be happy to explain things to you here.
At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.
Spideynw: I myself have never actually read much literature outside of the Mises daily articles and FEE.org articles. I have tried to read some of the books, but since I already understand it most of it, I get bored really quick. I find the best way for me to learn is to just discuss things with other people. I was always very disappointed with my government funded/provided education. They never wanted to discuss anything. No opposing viewpoints were ever allowed. Not so on the internet. As long as you are genuinely interested, you will find a lot of people on this forum that will be happy to explain things to you here.
I'm sorry to tell you but there are many things inside the pages of Human Action or Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles or whatever that you can't and won't learn on any forum.
GilesStratton:I'm sorry to tell you but there are many things inside the pages of Human Action or Money, Bank Credit and Economic Cycles or whatever that you can't and won't learn on any forum.
You are sorry? ;)
But really, I doubt there is. There is no need for me to understand the specifics of banking. I know enough about monopolies to know that the government needs to get out of the currency market.
As to Human Action, I really doubt there is anything in it that I would not already know.
A very good economics outline with links to a lot of audio files, .pdf version of books, and articles can be found at: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/edu/economics.php
If you click on their "education" tab, you can get outlines to other topics, such as sound money, foreign policy, education, and so on.
Spideynw:As to Human Action, I really doubt there is anything in it that I would not already know.
I'd be surprised if there was ANYONE in these forums who knew everything in that book (excepting those with photographic memories and authors of the study guide such as Bob Murphy). Surely you could imagine having something to learn from at least one of the greatest minds in history? If not, I'm pleased to make your aquaintance and why haven't you been more prolific in your own writings to explain to other people how things work?
Sometimes I learn stuff reading books I've already read since, on the second pass through I've got a new appreciation for the material or a more solid understanding of the individual concepts explained, so I start to see the more general structure/flow of the argument and broader consequences.
Sometimes I read the same argument presented by different authors and find I draw two different ways of viewing the same argument from complimentary but unique metaphors.
And in virtually every single Austrian book I've read I've pulled out at least a handful of new ideas that I'd never even thought of... Menger's Principles was a particularly good read, not least because it was dealing with such elementary market actions - but describing them so clearly. You come away from it not so much with new ideas but with an enhanced clarity and explicit understanding of some of the ideas you already had or thought you had (but hadn't really through through well enough to understand them on anywhere near the same level as Menger).
I don't mean to be rude, but don't you worry that perhaps yoru arrogance is stunting your intellectual growth? Surely you could imagine learning something from the world's greatest thinkers?
Spideynw:As to Human Action, I really doubt there is anything in it that I would not already know
Why are you even on this forum if you have no interest in learning AE?
Reading it would let you find out, no?
To darkness I condemn you...
Read these books, and you should have a fairly solid foundation to continue in your studies:
Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt. Definitely read this book first. It is perhaps the best introduction to economic logic ever written.
I would follow up Hazlitt's book with Essentials of Economics by Faustino Ballve. Another short, but terrific read.
Frederic Bastiat's The Law is another short work that is well worth reading.
Then I would dip my toes into some of the works of Mises. The best place to start, IMO, is The Anti-Capitalistic Mentality. Very short, very readable.
The Concise Guide to Economics by Jim Cox can also be used to tie up any loose ends you might be unsure with economically. It's a very breezy read (I read it in around 45 minutes).
These are all really short, easily read and digestible books. You can finish all of them in a week. I think it's important to have fun while you are first learning about libertarian thought, and these books fit the bill. I don't recommend jumping into a huge treatise like Human Action just yet. Get your feet wet with these books and then when you feel like you are ready, tackle Human Action or Man, Economy, and State methodically and slowly.
Once you are done with these introductory books, I would highly recommend reading Mises' Socialism. The book is a lot bigger than the others (around 600 pages if I remember correctly), but will be a highly rewarding experience, completey dismembering all forms of socialist theory and apologetics.
Oh, and welcome! :)
jimmy:I don't mean to be rude, but don't you worry that perhaps yoru arrogance is stunting your intellectual growth? Surely you could imagine learning something from the world's greatest thinkers?
The problem is your assumption that I did not learn from them. As I stated, I read the Mises.org and FEE.org daily posts pretty much daily. Some stuff directly from Mises himself gets posted on there. Other stuff is from other people that have learned from Mises. I am not being arrogant. I just recognize that I already have learned from him and the other Austrian authors.
I may one day decide to write something, but probably not. The only thing I think needs to be clarified are parent's rights vs. children's rights and maybe more writings on the proper extent of the law. Otherwise, I think the Austrian authors have done a great job covering every other political issue.
GilesStratton: Spideynw:As to Human Action, I really doubt there is anything in it that I would not already know Why are you even on this forum if you have no interest in learning AE?
Because I am not so much here to learn as to help others learn.
champthom: . It's stuff I only discovered fairly recently, so I'd read Samuel Edward Konkin III's "New Libertarian Manifesto" (by the way, I recommend Murray Rothbard's "For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto" as well) and his recently post humously released "An Agorist Primer" which has a decent summary of Austrian economics.
. It's stuff I only discovered fairly recently, so I'd read Samuel Edward Konkin III's "New Libertarian Manifesto" (by the way, I recommend Murray Rothbard's "For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto" as well) and his recently post humously released "An Agorist Primer" which has a decent summary of Austrian economics.
Good list, although I must dissent here. NLM, and most everything by Konkin should be avoided. In NLM Konkin goes on a bizarre (and frankly, unlibertarian) rant on the 'evils' of wage 'slavery' as well as employment hierarchy. When I was first getting into radical libertarianism and searching out literature I came across New Libertarian Manifesto and it was confusing. I thought, "isnt libertarianism pro market/free association?". Later on I rediscovered Murray Rothbard who I had read years earlier in Chronicles and he put me back on the right track.
I agree with most of the other repliers list, Economics in One Lesson is a good starting point. I would follow up that with Human Action and maybe graduate your way up to For a New Liberty and Democracy: The God that Failed.
Semper Fidelis
Spideynw:The only thing I think needs to be clarified are parent's rights vs. children's rights and maybe more writings on the proper extent of the law.
Check out Bruno Leoni on the subject of the later (this of course would require reading a book mind you, since this topic comes up very rarely in the forums of Mises Blog/Daily). My most recent blog post was a short introduction to some of his works, but harly does it justice.
Right, and guess what? That means you need to know a thing or two yourself. The thing is you don't even seem to have an interest in AE.
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