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Should Laissez Faire Fall, Like The Berlin Wall?

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pairunoyd posted on Tue, Dec 23 2008 9:35 PM

Arianna Huffington: The collapse of Communism as a political system sounded the death knell for Marxism as an ideology. But while laissez faire capitalism has been a monumental failure in practice, and soundly defeated at the polls, the ideology is still alive and kicking. If a politician announced he was running on a platform of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" he would be laughed off the stage. That is also the correct response to anyone who continues to make the case that markets do best when left alone. It's time to drive the final nail into the coffin of laissez faire capitalism by treating it like the discredited ideology it inarguably is.

See full article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/laissez-faire-capitalism_b_152900.html

 

 

Here she describes Chairman Greenspan: Alan Greenspan, whose owl-eyed visage would adorn a Mount Rushmore of unregulated capitalists

One of her quoted sources: "...William Seidman, the longtime GOP economic advisor who oversaw the S&L bailout in 1991...." : "To make the market work well, you have to have a lot of rules."

She concludes: It's time to relegate free market fundamentalists to the same standing as Marxist ideologues: intellectual curiosities occasionally trotted out as relics of a failed philosophy.

 

I'd thought Huffington was right-wing and couldn't believe her article. So I wikied her and it made this comment about her politics: Huffington's politics began changing in the late 1990s. A former "right winger", she moved noticeably to the left and now describes herself as a "progressive populist".

Here's the full article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianna_Huffington

 

If anyone feels led, you can sign up at her site and post your comments. However, comments do require approval first, so you got to be quite diplomatic. I know this from experience. But that's fine; it's their site:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/laissez-faire-capitalism_b_152900.html

 

It was a little surprising to see such a strong proclamation against freedom. I say "freedom" instead of "free market". Why make a big list of all the human activities that you want to see the word "free" in front of? How do you take freedom out of trade and not destroy freedom? Oppression in the market is oppression in your life - period..

 

"The best way to bail out the economy is with liberty, not with federal reserve notes." - pairunoyd

"The vision of the Austrian must be greater than the blindness of the sheeple." - pairunoyd

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Answered (Verified) Andrew replied on Sat, Jan 10 2009 6:22 PM
Verified by pairunoyd

I would just reverse the argument that " market regulation" is a consequence of failure in the "political free market". We must also regulate democracy, because is just like the " free market ", just in legislation instead of laws, and will bring about evil.

Democracy is essentially a 90% free market 10% state. What is demanded is supplied by democracy. 

Now let's say in Huffington's case, all but one congressman votes for more market regulation. This very powerful politician can crush what regulations the people want enacted. The " free market of democracy" is no longer free but decided by a couple people.

This man preaches  It is time to put a nail in "free democracy" once and for all! We need to regulate it! The first regulation I impose is that no matter how much people want something they can't have it, because the few corrupt people will enact "laws" that only benefit some small elite, and let everyone else starve. No more! What is needed and not needed will be decided by me! No more of these laws, demanded from the 90% of the population, will be created to let supply meet demand. Getting rid of this free for all democracy is the greatest step towards liberty. 

 Don't regulate MY FREE MARKET, the Democratic State. That would bring about distortions in the Democratic State like war, revolution, and dictatorship.....exactly what I am trying to prevent by regulating the free market.... Wait a minute I see your point, the market is what keeps us from totalita..................(in background... My second regulation will be to stop this unregulated free market in speech, where people can just supply by their voice what is demanded by the masses. We shall start be regulating that lady right there!)

Democracy is nothing more than replacing bullets with ballots

 

If Pro is the opposite of Con. What is the opposite of Progress?

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Shawn77 replied on Tue, Dec 23 2008 10:08 PM

I do think laissez faire should fall and i would also like to reintroduce a petition on behalf of candleworkers to blot out the sun

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fakename replied on Tue, Dec 23 2008 10:31 PM

shawn77:

I do think laissez faire should fall and i would also like to reintroduce a petition on behalf of candleworkers to blot out the sun

 

 

right on! And while were at it why not a petition to chop-off our right arms -think of the new found productivity!  There is a part of me that hopes that if the public should turn against laissez-faire rhetoric (libertarians already knowing they've turned against it in practice) they will, by the process of elimination, come to realize that their current economy is really a mixed one...and finally we can stop blaming our financial disasters on "unregulated capitalism".

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I can't believe Comrade Huffington ever had much understanding of economics. How can someone ever see the truth and then forget it, especially to that degree?

"The best way to bail out the economy is with liberty, not with federal reserve notes." - pairunoyd

"The vision of the Austrian must be greater than the blindness of the sheeple." - pairunoyd

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Shawn77 replied on Tue, Dec 23 2008 10:51 PM

pairunoyd:

I can't believe Comrade Huffington ever had much understanding of economics. How can someone ever see the truth and then forget it, especially to that degree?

Much like Greenspan

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Juan replied on Tue, Dec 23 2008 10:56 PM
I always wonder how much money did these people receive in exchange for their souls.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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shawn77:
Much like Greenspan

Much more perplexing. Yes, that's confused me for many years. Even Ron Paul admitted confusion. I read or heard some of his comments on Greenspan's apparent abandonment of laissez faire..

"The best way to bail out the economy is with liberty, not with federal reserve notes." - pairunoyd

"The vision of the Austrian must be greater than the blindness of the sheeple." - pairunoyd

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From what I've heard and read, he never was much of a libertarian to begin with.  He was an Objectivist, yes, and a member of the Collective to boot, but he abandoned Objectivism due to something stupid like accepting the fact-value dichomity, or something like that (of all the things to de-Randroid for!).  I think he still calls himself a libertarian, though, which is just pathetic.

Market anarchist, Linux geek, aspiring Perl hacker, and student of the neo-Aristotelians, the classical individualist anarchists, and the Austrian school.

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What I find especially astounding is how she and every one else of her ilk believe that it's only now that the market will receive a barrage of new regulations (and not the umpteenth time in the last 80 years alone), as though US pols always give freedom the benefit of the doubt when it's under their suspicion (my theory is they, Huffingtonians, just want to feel important).  I mean, if the status quo is an example of a free market, I'd hate to find out what a regulated one is like.

Diminishing Marginal Utility - IT'S THE LAW!

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Juan:
I always wonder how much money did these people receive in exchange for their souls.

Whatever the number of dollars, there is something poetic about them receiving fiat. A grand representation of what they are both actually worth - nothing.

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pairunoyd:

Arianna Huffington: The collapse of Communism as a political system sounded the death knell for Marxism as an ideology. But while laissez faire capitalism has been a monumental failure in practice, and soundly defeated at the polls, the ideology is still alive and kicking. If a politician announced he was running on a platform of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" he would be laughed off the stage. That is also the correct response to anyone who continues to make the case that markets do best when left alone. It's time to drive the final nail into the coffin of laissez faire capitalism by treating it like the discredited ideology it inarguably is.

See full article here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/laissez-faire-capitalism_b_152900.html

The correct response to this is "we have not have laissez faire capitalism for the past two decades, ergo, the failure of the current system doesn't demonstrate the failure of laissez faire capitalism".

Austrians do it a priori

Irish Liberty Forum 

 

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Which would get a response along the lines of  "you free market fundamentalist just try to whitewash your failed and inhumane ideology, like the other extremists."

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I just happened to google "top blogs 2008" and clicked on a link to Time magazine. It has a list of the top 25 blogs - Huff Post was the first one on the list. I didn't see a particular ranking, but it was in the top 25 list.

I'm a guy that's from the conservative school but has become more and more libertarian, nearly to the point of anarchy. The Huff stuff is usually diametrically opposed to my thoughts, but I like hearing many different ideas. I've found that critiquing others' ideas is a good mental workout, no matter how ridiculous those ideas may appear.

I didn't know Huff was that popular, did you? What's really weird is Huffington apparently used to be very right and now she's very left - very. I going to google it, but does anyone know the story on that? If I find out anything I'll post it.

 

 

 

 

"The best way to bail out the economy is with liberty, not with federal reserve notes." - pairunoyd

"The vision of the Austrian must be greater than the blindness of the sheeple." - pairunoyd

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Blergh; The Huffington Post  is pure infotainment garbage, even by Statist-Leftist standards (which are already pretty low, journalism wise, sans CounterPunch, maybe).  It wouldn't surprise me if the entire lot rationalized supporting Stalin's Ghost for "re-election" if he said one mildly inflammatory comment about Bush II :rolls eyes:.  

The only site in the above graphic that would probably be tolerable is Metafilter.  Boing Boing is good fun for random internet stuff, though.

Why is Daily kos still up?  I'm surprised that site hasn't been D-DOS'ed into the abyss just yet.

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Answered (Verified) Andrew replied on Sat, Jan 10 2009 6:22 PM
Verified by pairunoyd

I would just reverse the argument that " market regulation" is a consequence of failure in the "political free market". We must also regulate democracy, because is just like the " free market ", just in legislation instead of laws, and will bring about evil.

Democracy is essentially a 90% free market 10% state. What is demanded is supplied by democracy. 

Now let's say in Huffington's case, all but one congressman votes for more market regulation. This very powerful politician can crush what regulations the people want enacted. The " free market of democracy" is no longer free but decided by a couple people.

This man preaches  It is time to put a nail in "free democracy" once and for all! We need to regulate it! The first regulation I impose is that no matter how much people want something they can't have it, because the few corrupt people will enact "laws" that only benefit some small elite, and let everyone else starve. No more! What is needed and not needed will be decided by me! No more of these laws, demanded from the 90% of the population, will be created to let supply meet demand. Getting rid of this free for all democracy is the greatest step towards liberty. 

 Don't regulate MY FREE MARKET, the Democratic State. That would bring about distortions in the Democratic State like war, revolution, and dictatorship.....exactly what I am trying to prevent by regulating the free market.... Wait a minute I see your point, the market is what keeps us from totalita..................(in background... My second regulation will be to stop this unregulated free market in speech, where people can just supply by their voice what is demanded by the masses. We shall start be regulating that lady right there!)

Democracy is nothing more than replacing bullets with ballots

 

If Pro is the opposite of Con. What is the opposite of Progress?

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