Communism and Libertarianism are virtually the same.

LIBERTY STUDENT

I really doubt you answers were true. However it really does not fit in my head how someone goes trough all that ............lives in the USA or Europe and still feels a slave.

With all respect I do know great psychologists that would gradly talk to you.

Cesar:

Would you also have me removed from your free market society if you ever succeed on it???

What do you advice in that case?? To go back to Cuba or another country of my liking???

Since you told me yesterday you would steal from me against my will, and even kill me if you thought you needed the money for something else and I wouldn't give it up, I too would like to see you go far away.  If what you wrote was honest, then you would be a threat to me in the physical world.  While I wish you no harm, you have told me aggressive violence is how you conduct commerce.

Cesar:

I really doubt you answers were true. However it really does not fit in my head how someone goes trough all that ............lives in the USA or Europe and still feels a slave.

I live in Canada.  And I am still a slave.  My country won't even allow me to renounce my citizenship and become stateless.  They insist I am their property.  Do you call that freedom?

Cesar:

With all respect I do know great psychologists that would gradly talk to you.

It is a juvenile tactic to insist that someone you disagree with is crazy.  You should listen to Lew Rockwell's podcast today about psychiatry.  It was originally cooked up to get undesirables (people like me, who don't want to be slaves) out of society even when we have broken no laws, only asked for our freedom.

Again, you want to steal from me and kill me, so why shouldn't I expect that you try to use the psychiatric medical complex against me?  This is Cesar justice.  This is Cesar liberty.  This is Cesar freedom.

EXACTLY. That's what would happen under Libertarianism. You just proved to be a sick guy, who under the name of an Ideal would have me killed for disagreeing with him and misspelling words.

AWESOME. thank you for revealing yourself. I will join the FBI to secretly destroy you (at least in my system that is allowed).

GilesStratton:

Cesar:

Would you also have me removed from your free market society if you ever succeed on it???

What do you advice in that case?? To go back to Cuba or another country of my liking???

Yes, I wouldn't care if you went to the gulag to be quite honest.

Cesar,

I imagine you're a cuban who left cuba because you didn't like commies. The irony, which you can't grasp, is that you yourself are a commie and don't mind enslaving people, as long as the slavery is not as obvious as it is in cuba.

LIBERTY STUDENT:

I know this much: At least in Canada you are closer to total freedom that what you would be under Libertarianism. If you call the present system of both Canada and US a system of slavery, murder and theft then yes, I would be proud to be called all that.

Cesar:

I have a few questions for you all???

Have you lived in communism??

Every had a gun in your mouth???

Ever being told want to do, eat, think, read and watch on tv???

Every being forced to work???

IF YOU HAVEN'T WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU KNOW ABOUT SLAVERY AND FREEDOM.

liberty student:

You accidentally quoted me.

That is the problem.  Cesar worldview is full of contradictions and rather than try and sort them out, he'll name call us as stupid or misguided.

He literally does believe that you have to be society's slave, in order to be free.  Although you should read more carefully, because Cesar doesn't make many points about liberty,  He takes it for granted he is free as it is clear he doesn't see any moral or philosophical reason why it is not only good, but economically advantageous to be free.

First, you have an image problem. The way you write is just going to make you look bad. Proper grammar and proper spelling is necessary if you want somebody to seriously listen to you.

Second of all, you attacked the forum posters' authorities(lack of experience) rather than their opinion(actual statement that is revelant to the matter). Smart debaters can use your fallicious attack to undermine whatever vaild argument you hold(and your character in the process). From my observation, these anarchists are not to be underestmated for their retheortical skills.

Cesar, you told me you would murder and steal from me.  How is it you are the victim here?

Also, gulags would not exist in a libertarian society.  Libertarianism means everyone is free, and no one is a slave.  People like you who want to murder and steal have to live under the state to accomplish your goals.  In a libertarian society, you wouldn't have the police to protect you if you murdered and stole from people. 

Cesar:

I really doubt you answers were true. However it really does not fit in my head how someone goes trough all that ............lives in the USA or Europe and still feels a slave.

With all respect I do know great psychologists that would gradly talk to you.

Cesar, there is no magical line in the sand.There is no level of acceptable slavery. Enslave me for one hour a day rather than the whole day, I'm still a slave. Government always grows. The second you allow an inch, they will take a mile.

This is why even in 'free' countries such as the US, we fight the slavery they impose upon us. Sure, its better than Cuba (where i'm assuming you're from, sorry if i'm wrong). But being better than Cuba doens't make us free. Some slaveowners were polite to their slaves, never beat them, didnt abuse them any way at all. Gave them ample food, good shelter, etc. Did they have no right to be upset? Were they not slaves? Your viewpoint seems to be that they had no right to complain because others had it worse. We argue that slavery is slavery, no matter what.

I never said I'd go to the effort of doing it, you're not worth that much. I just said I'd be more than happy to see you removed from liberarian society. Which would be perfectly acceptable. In fact democrats, socialists and the like would be removed.

Until then, can we not remove you from our forums?

Juan:

Cesar,

I imagine you're a cuban who left cuba because you didn't like commies. The irony, which you can't grasp, is that you yourself are a commie and don't mind enslaving people, as long as the slavery is not as obvious as it is in cuba.

Great post Juan.  You have properly diagnosed the situation.  I suppose the same goes for Ruben, who had disdain for Chavez, not realizing that he also endorsed Chavez's same tactics as an appropriate way of reform.

Cesar:

LIBERTY STUDENT:

I know this much: At least in Canada you are closer to total freedom that what you would be under Libertarianism. If you call the present system of both Canada and US a system of slavery, murder and theft then yes, I would be proud to be called all that.

Of course you would be proud.  You wrote yesterday that if you wanted to take money from me, you would steal it, and if I opposed you, you would kill me for it.  That is why you like slavery.  You're no different than Castro in tactic, you only believe you are different in motive and result.

And you don't know anything about libertarianism, so it is ridiculous for you to continue to make assertions that it would be less free.  How can you be less free if you are absolutely free?

I dont care who takes me seriously or not. English is not my first language, in fact I dont have an official first language. It is hard for me to put things in writing, even harder to talk about the real world with philosophers who think they know about freedom and slavery. You are all Rebels trapped in your own ideas trying to evade the hard reality that freedom is just a state of mind like everything else and no matter how hard you try you will always be a SLAVE.The very same ideal you think would drive you free is bringing you pain because it will remain just that, an ideal to be read in your books.

As you well said it does not matter if you are a 100% slave in Cuba, 50% slave in the US or 40% slave in Canada...........it is what it is. Only the masters achieve a 100% freedom at the expense of their slaves..........and that's exactly what I think Libertarianism would do...........and that's why I believe Communism and Libertarianism are two faces of the same coin.

Look at nature, it is perfect on itself. Yet plants and animals have no intellect but they do a 100% of what they are meant to do. But we humans we still dont even know who we are. I think authority prevents humans from killing each other and you think otherwise. Our Socio-Economic life reflects our only universal nature, "imperfection (not like nature).

AS I told you..........I am not free. My presece in these forums is at the mercy of those in powers to ban me. So???

GilesStratton:

I never said I'd go to the effort of doing it, you're not worth that much. I just said I'd be more than happy to see you removed from liberarian society. Which would be perfectly acceptable. In fact democrats, socialists and the like would be removed.

Until then, can we not remove you from our forums?

 

Cesar:

You are all Rebels trapped in your own ideas trying to evade the hard reality that freedom is just a state of mind like everything else and no matter how hard you try you will always be a SLAVE.

Spoken like one so resigned to escapism he can't distinguish between mind and reality and so accuses everyone else of his own weakness and frustration.

Cesar:

Only the masters achieve a 100% freedom at the expense of their slaves..........and that's exactly what I think Libertarianism would do

Then present your argument... if you have one.

Cesar:

Our Socio-Economic life reflects our only universal nature, "imperfection (not like nature).

Nature is by no means perfect. If it was, the whole concept of evolution would be pointless. Rather than being perfect, nature is in a constant state of creative destruction.

Humans have evolved (have been created, to respect our IDers) in such a way that they are now able to engage in creative destruction themselves. That's also what our socio-economic life reflects: a desire to achieve certain goals, to satisfy certain wishes, to improve certain situations through creating and rejecting.

Libertarianism merely points out the absolutely overestimated role the state is playing in improving mankind's lot. Thus, libertarianism is just another part of creative destruction, as natural as cow dung.

 

Cesar:

I dont care who takes me seriously or not.

This is obvious.  I'm not even sure you take yourself seriously.

Cesar:

It is hard for me to put things in writing, even harder to talk about the real world with philosophers who think they know about freedom and slavery. You are all Rebels trapped in your own ideas trying to evade the hard reality that freedom is just a state of mind like everything else and no matter how hard you try you will always be a SLAVE.The very same ideal you think would drive you free is bringing you pain because it will remain just that, an ideal to be read in your books.

I think it is hard for you to talk or put things in words, because you refuse to learn, you refuse to listen, you refuse to debate honestly, and you refuse to apply rational thought.

You can't even begin to say that what we may believe or think is wrong, because you don't even understand it!  It's just a lot of crying and complaining without any substance.

Cesar:

As you well said it does not matter if you are a 100% slave in Cuba, 50% slave in the US or 40% slave in Canada...........it is what it is. Only the masters achieve a 100% freedom at the expense of their slaves..........and that's exactly what I think Libertarianism would do...........and that's why I believe Communism and Libertarianism are two faces of the same coin.

It's very sad Cesar, that communism has made you so ignorant, so incapable of critical thinking, that you resort to posting things like this.  Obviously communism and libertarianism are complete opposites.  But you can't see it, because you are incapable of absorbing any thoughts outside of the ones you were programmed with in Cuba.  You might live in America, but you still think like a communist slave.

Cesar:

Look at nature, it is perfect on itself. Yet plants and animals have no intellect but they do a 100% of what they are meant to do. But we humans we still dont even know who we are. I think authority prevents humans from killing each other and you think otherwise. Our Socio-Economic life reflects our only universal nature, "imperfection (not like nature).

But authority commits the most violence.  Authority puts millions in jail.  It jails people for non-violent crimes.  It jails people for putting natural plants in their body.

Authority drops bombs on cities, it creates nuclear weapons and incinerates thousands.  It creates blockades that starve people to death.  It steals.  It kills.  It replace intelligence with propaganda.

Worst of all, it destroys families, it destroys communities, races, cultures, prosperity and creativity.

Libertarians are totally different than communists.  Communists are like you.  They believe that power can be used to defeat power.

Libertarians know that power corrupts, and each individual must be able to act voluntarily to be free.  Only statists believe that without the police or law, man would rape and slaughter himself like an animal.  Only statists hate themselves and the species so much.

To OP: Actually, no. Libertarianism and anarcho-capitalism are two different things. ;)

LIBERTY STUDENT:

But your whole philosophy does not even have a point of referense but the internet.

I think it would be ok for me to think that Jesus will come some day...........will stablish his kingdom and we will be free.

No society has ever lived under anything similar to Libertarianism.

Since humanity is around, authority exist..........what's your problem with that??? Are you smoking??

Cesar:

LIBERTY STUDENT:

But your whole philosophy does not even have a point of referense but the internet.

I think it would be ok for me to think that Jesus will come some day...........will stablish his kingdom and we will be free.

No society has ever lived under anything similar to Libertarianism.

Since humanity is around, authority exist..........what's your problem with that??? Are you smoking??

The Amish.