I don't watch many movies, and definitely not that one.
Clooney and his buddy Brad Pitt are hollywood communists.
The good thing is that Obama might spend all of his time in other countries. The bad thing is, his people are infinitely smarter about the internet than Republicans, libertarians etc. Obama is going to be the next frontier of brainwashing. It's why I started the web marketing group here, although attendance is ok, participation is low and thus my will to push is diminished. I'm getting too old to drag the train in herculean fashion.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
I live in Portland, white guilt is alive and well up here, thats for sure.
GilesStratton: liberty student: GilesStratton:What are you? The thought police? I am the BRAIN POLICE! 1. If you post it, it's fair game. 2. You're the second person to insinuate that Ruben might be for Obama due to race. Why interject race into it at all? Maybe he's for men. Maybe he's for younger men. Maybe he's for lawyers. Maybe he's voting for Obama because he's taller than McCain. Do I have to list every attribute and characteristic where Obama differs from Bush and McCain? I find it curious that people go directly to race because there are so many other reasons to question someone on than race. It tells something about the questioner and how he views the motivations of other people. And maybe even himself. I never meant Ruben in particular, what I meant was the fact that most morons who say Obama represents change or whatever nonsense they come up with now say so because you know, his skin colour is darker than the rest of the candidates. Or to put it politically correctly he's "african american". And somehow because of this we have to vote for him, either because he allegedly represents change or we have to do it to apologise for the fact that some hundred years ago our ancestors enslaved his ancestors.
liberty student: GilesStratton:What are you? The thought police? I am the BRAIN POLICE! 1. If you post it, it's fair game. 2. You're the second person to insinuate that Ruben might be for Obama due to race. Why interject race into it at all? Maybe he's for men. Maybe he's for younger men. Maybe he's for lawyers. Maybe he's voting for Obama because he's taller than McCain. Do I have to list every attribute and characteristic where Obama differs from Bush and McCain? I find it curious that people go directly to race because there are so many other reasons to question someone on than race. It tells something about the questioner and how he views the motivations of other people. And maybe even himself.
GilesStratton:What are you? The thought police?
I am the BRAIN POLICE!
1. If you post it, it's fair game.
2. You're the second person to insinuate that Ruben might be for Obama due to race. Why interject race into it at all? Maybe he's for men. Maybe he's for younger men. Maybe he's for lawyers. Maybe he's voting for Obama because he's taller than McCain.
Do I have to list every attribute and characteristic where Obama differs from Bush and McCain?
I find it curious that people go directly to race because there are so many other reasons to question someone on than race. It tells something about the questioner and how he views the motivations of other people. And maybe even himself.
I never meant Ruben in particular, what I meant was the fact that most morons who say Obama represents change or whatever nonsense they come up with now say so because you know, his skin colour is darker than the rest of the candidates. Or to put it politically correctly he's "african american".
And somehow because of this we have to vote for him, either because he allegedly represents change or we have to do it to apologise for the fact that some hundred years ago our ancestors enslaved his ancestors.
Don't even try explaining anything to liberty on this topic. I tried last night.
liberty student: Byzantine, I don't doubt that race plays an role, even a significant one. I do dislike that it's used as an attack "do you like him for his race?" when there is much more going on here, and by virtue of the environment here at the Mises community, we're certainly not a crowd that would be likely to make a superficial race first determination. Granted Ruben is relatively new, but coming from Michael and Giles, I certainly think there is an opportunity to address the fundamental sameness of both candidates, and the evil of that sameness (basically hyper nationalism, hyper statism). I'll readily admit I am not an expert on understanding white guilt.
Byzantine, I don't doubt that race plays an role, even a significant one.
I do dislike that it's used as an attack "do you like him for his race?" when there is much more going on here, and by virtue of the environment here at the Mises community, we're certainly not a crowd that would be likely to make a superficial race first determination. Granted Ruben is relatively new, but coming from Michael and Giles, I certainly think there is an opportunity to address the fundamental sameness of both candidates, and the evil of that sameness (basically hyper nationalism, hyper statism).
I'll readily admit I am not an expert on understanding white guilt.
You just admitted my and a few others point! Why do you have to attack people that bring up race? I don't have "white guilt" if there is even such a thing.
One thing people should do is look at his actual foreign policy on his website. You'll hear people here and there saying "Hey at least Obama wants to talk to Chavez, Ahmadenijad, and everyone else"- which is considered a more positive move than the Bush administration's motto of not talking to anyone. But what is he going to talk to them about? If you look at his foreign policy platform- its to use both economic sanctions or "carrot on a stick" methods to get them to coincide with whatever Obama's administration wants. So essentially- ransom or bribery with taxpayer money are the options that Obama is providing to those people he wants to talk to. I don't think anyone believes that Obama is going to tell Castro that we're going to end the sanctions on Cuba or that he's going to encourage those leaders that they need more economic freedom.
Jonathan: Remind me who has been screwing up our country for the past two years? We didnt have problems until rockbama and the socialist brigade took over Congress two years ago.
I certainly dont think George Bush should assume a majority of the blame.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Nitroadict: This is a forum of individuals: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.” Michael S. seems unable to except that, but at least you are not forcing your views, however possibly controversial, onto others.
This is a forum of individuals: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.” Michael S. seems unable to except that, but at least you are not forcing your views, however possibly controversial, onto others.
No, this is a forum of individuals and education. It's a big world. If people want to remain arrogant and not get educated then why be in these forums? If a socialist came to these forums and posted non-sense, wouldn't you want to educate that person instead of letting this Individual believe in the same non-sense? You wouldn't force Austrian economics on this Individual, you would educate this person on Austrian economics. Since when is educating someone using force? I don't and didn't threaten anyone! I don't and I didn't call anyone names. This reply to you is meant to educate you, not force you!
Thanks,
Michael
Michael S: You just admitted my and a few others point! Why do you have to attack people that bring up race?
Why do you have to bring up race? It's irrelevant. And you brought it into the discussion.
Not only is it irrelevant, but it puts people on the defensive, which makes it difficult to find out what malformed ideas they have about an Obama presidency, and how best to educate them on another perspective.
No, It's irrelevant to you! Sure you have those other things you talked about but you also have this thing too. Why not talk about the whole pie not just half of it?
I didn't realize the reason not to vote for or against Obama, scratch that, half of the reason not to vote for or against Obama is because he is black. I thought it was crazy things like socialism, hypernationalism, honesty, being anti-state, his anti-liberty views, his redistributionist views, his foreign policy views, his domestic policy views, his national service views, his flirtations with marxism and communism, his shady and unknown background, his dubious citizenship, his horrible plan for america etc.
Gee, if all I have to do is decide based on his race, well gee, that's more than 50% of the thinking right there!
Is race a big deal? Sure if that is how you judge the merit of a man. I look at other factors, less important ones like honesty, intelligence, humility, confidence and reputation.
Michael, I don't want to argue anymore. I've made my point very clearly I believe. I'll read your response if there is one. Thanks for reading.
liberty student:Why do you have to bring up race?
Because all the rest of his sheep point to his skin colour to prove that he represents "change".
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
liberty student:I didn't realize the reason not to vote for or against Obama, scratch that, half of the reason not to vote for or against Obama is because he is black. I thought it was crazy things like socialism, hypernationalism, honesty, being anti-state, his anti-liberty views, his redistributionist views, his foreign policy views, his domestic policy views, his national service views, his flirtations with marxism and communism, his shady and unknown background, his dubious citizenship, his horrible plan for america etc.
I don't see anybody saying that being black is a reason to not vote for him, rather that it is not a reason to vote for him. But with today's newspeak I'm sure that qualifies as racism.
GilesStratton:Because all the rest of his sheep point to his skin colour to prove that he represents "change".
No, they don't. And if we arrogantly write them off as race sheep, we're not going to be able to combat and understand his brainwashing when it starts to take root everywhere, and control everything.
GilesStratton:I don't see anybody saying that being black is a reason to not vote for him, rather that it is not a reason to vote for him. But with today's newspeak I'm sure that qualifies as racism.
Wow. Do you know how many people are voting McCain, even Democrats, because they don't want a "black" President?
There is tons of racism and reverse racism. My point is, we're collectively (as libertarians) so much better than wasting time on that. I would hope, even those of us amongst us who are tribe or race first, still understand that the greatest threats from Obama is his message and platform, not the darkness of his skin.
Liberty student and everyone else,
I know you guys mean well!
No one is attacking anyone! I don't know why you think we are! Ignoring this problem does not help anyone! i brought this issue up because, I believe that Obama and/or the people that are pulling his puppet strings are using propaganda against African Americans when he preaches about hope, change and etc to instigate violence if something goes wrong so that the NWO can come in and "take care" of the problem (Rioting and etc ) and Thus to take over the government. Don't think the NWO is real? then you need to read these Sites: http://www.runet.edu/~gmartin/, http://www.wcpagren.com/, and http://www.worldproblems.net/ among others! I'm not saying this is whats going to happen, I'm saying that this is a possibility because hey you never know.
liberty student: GilesStratton:Because all the rest of his sheep point to his skin colour to prove that he represents "change". No, they don't. And if we arrogantly write them off as race sheep, we're not going to be able to combat and understand his brainwashing when it starts to take root everywhere, and control everything.
I really don't care about combating his brainwashing, those who buy into a system of coercion such as that promised by Obama, with as much enthusiasm as his fans do can spend the rest of their lives as slaves for all I care, I just want them to leave me out of it.
liberty student: GilesStratton:I don't see anybody saying that being black is a reason to not vote for him, rather that it is not a reason to vote for him. But with today's newspeak I'm sure that qualifies as racism. Wow. Do you know how many people are voting McCain, even Democrats, because they don't want a "black" President? There is tons of racism and reverse racism. My point is, we're collectively (as libertarians) so much better than wasting time on that. I would hope, even those of us amongst us who are tribe or race first, still understand that the greatest threats from Obama is his message and platform, not the darkness of his skin.
I'm not wasting my time on anything, I couldn't care about who wins between the two fasicsts, I've lost all interest in politics, it's a glorified popularity contest as far as I can see. All I was pointing out was that most morons who support Obama do so because he's black, even if they don't want to admit it.
Do you really think Obama would even be in the race if he was white?
I believe in the New World Order. That said, Obama is going to win or there will be riots regardless. Tensions are high with whites and non-whites, particularly after the Dems didn't end the war, didn't impeach Bush, both the President and Congress have every low approval ratings, McCain is a bum, and the economy is getting worse, with the politicians bailing out their cronies and generally looking clueless.
I assume from your pic, you're fairly young. When I was younger, I was zealous. Zealotry can be an asset, and it can be a deficit. Making points and winning minds requires being able to articulate a position, and to establish a non-confrontational tone. Now if you're arguing with someone just because they are an idiot and you don't think you can get anywhere, or you are shaming them to make an example, that's different.
But if you really want to get through to people, it helps to not call them out as shallow (true or false), but to present contrasting opinions that demonstrate this through their own rational calculation.
GilesStratton:Do you really think Obama would even be in the race if he was white?
Yes. But I don't think he would be able to win in a landslide. And I don't think he would have chosen Biden as a running mate.
Look, the whole thing is superficial. What about all of the women voting for Hillary? What about the brief Palin surge by women and fanatical christians?
People are attracted to Obama because public education has convinced them that the government is good, abortion is good, god is bad, being white is a crime, americans are more excellent than everyone else (but should feel bad about it), democracy is an ideal and that no one should question authority. The coming of a multi-ethnic super orator like Obama is just the crest of the wave of socialism and collectivism. It means we have reached a tipping point IMO.
When I talk or write to an Obama supporter, a so-called true believer, they are like a zombie. They are not employing any rational thought processes. They have not become informed on issues. They are not weighing cause and effect. if Obama says, "Only I can feed you", they will shout "Lord, give us bread!".
What is going on is very scary. And the "blackness" of the man is a sidebar to the fact that we can clearly see Hoppe's class struggle between the looters and the producers. They are winning the battle of the class conciousness.
liberty student: I didn't realize the reason not to vote for or against Obama, scratch that, half of the reason not to vote for or against Obama is because he is black. I thought it was crazy things like socialism, hypernationalism, honesty, being anti-state, his anti-liberty views, his redistributionist views, his foreign policy views, his domestic policy views, his national service views, his flirtations with marxism and communism, his shady and unknown background, his dubious citizenship, his horrible plan for america etc. Gee, if all I have to do is decide based on his race, well gee, that's more than 50% of the thinking right there! Is race a big deal? Sure if that is how you judge the merit of a man. I look at other factors, less important ones like honesty, intelligence, humility, confidence and reputation. Michael, I don't want to argue anymore. I've made my point very clearly I believe. I'll read your response if there is one. Thanks for reading.
We are not arguing. I never said don't or you shouldn't vote for Obama because he is black. you should vote on principle not becauseof someones skin which is what this issue or "argument" is about. Hell If Chuck baldwin wasn't running, I would vote for Cynthia McKinney who is a woman and who is also black! I'll try to put it in a differrent way. When Hillary Clinton was campaigning she mostly had women as supporters but with Obama it's with African Americans. With Hillary it was the sex of the person with Obama it's Race. could it be that Obama targeted African Americans On purpose and that Hillary tageted The women on purpose?
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