Stolz25:Where did the bread come from?
It wasn't defined in the analogy, so it's not relevant.
The November 2008 issue of Liberty Magazine contains "The Intelligent Person's Guide to Presidential Politics"--a series of four articles that make the libertarian case for Barr, McCain, Obama, and not voting. Bruce Ramsey penned the piece in 'support' of Obama. It can be found here. He mentions a number of libertarians who will vote for Obama and outlines their reasons for doing so. It's pretty clear that The Economist's assertion that libertarians comprise "the biggest brigade in the Obamacon army" is clearly preposterous.
You also might be interested in reading the article on not voting by the always entertaining Doug Casey. Here's the link.
I'll go only to vote for the proposed law to eliminate the state income tax. Other than that, I don't care much as I don't think it's going to change anything.
If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.
J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
GilesStratton: banned: Stranger:Not with the other players. It wasn't their choice to play. No one's forcing them to pull the trigger. They're doing it out of incentive. Exactly, these people have no right to complain about the hard ship of being poor as a result of the state, through voting for others people's money (which they feel they have some claim to) they create this system.
banned: Stranger:Not with the other players. It wasn't their choice to play. No one's forcing them to pull the trigger. They're doing it out of incentive.
Stranger:Not with the other players. It wasn't their choice to play.
No one's forcing them to pull the trigger. They're doing it out of incentive.
Exactly, these people have no right to complain about the hard ship of being poor as a result of the state, through voting for others people's money (which they feel they have some claim to) they create this system.
You all got it wrong:
he does it because of incentive and because he was forced ( If he didn't do it they would point a gun at his head and pull the trigger anyways). In the real world the poor can either receive welfare or starve or become a wage slave earner, Which All the aboveare imposed by the government.
So it's ok for a poor person to receive welfare? That's what you're saying right?
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
The contemporary media thinks libertarians are people who always complain about intrusions on personal freedom and big government, without any view on economics.
Democracy is nothing more than replacing bullets with ballots
If Pro is the opposite of Con. What is the opposite of Progress?
Twirlcan: One thing that really matters to people , is that Obama is not George W. Bush or associated with him.
One thing that really matters to people , is that Obama is not George W. Bush or associated with him.
Or maybe they are brothers in an unadvertised secret society like Bush and Kerry are Brothers in the Skulls and Bones
secret society or maybe they are in the same circle holding hands while worshiping the devil. Both Bush And Obama are known to use satanist hand signals/signs/symbols while in public. see here and here
Thanks,
Michael
GilesStratton: So it's ok for a poor person to receive welfare? That's what you're saying right?
I never said it was ok because they have the choice to become a wage slave
GilesStratton: In all fairness when Bob Barr gets the LP nomination what can you expect? Actually I was reading Wikipedia a while back when I stumbled across this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolibertarianism My favourite part is this: ...means making a political commitment to combat the initiation of force and fraud by the most effective and moral route possible; paleo-libertarians deal in words and thoughts, while neo-libertarians commit themselves to expanding freedom from the rhetorical world to the real world. It's the difference between saying something for freedom and doing something for freedom. Moreover, it's a commitment to the universality of freedom; just as calling oneself 'The Government' cannot legitimately add to one's natural rights, drawing an invisible line on a map and calling it 'The Border' cannot legitimately subtract from one's natural rights. People in foreign lands have the same natural rights as people in the house next door; neo-libertarianism is about finding the most practical ways to stop infringements against the liberty of those around the globe, including the use of force if necessary, just as we would use local police and courts to stop infringements of liberty next door. Put more succinctly: Individuals are the only morally significant unit of political economy. Individuals are imbued with infinite liberties circumscribed only by the rights of others to not be coerced or defrauded. The central right of humanity is the right to resist an aggressor, even if you aren't the victim.What next? Neopacifism?
In all fairness when Bob Barr gets the LP nomination what can you expect?
Actually I was reading Wikipedia a while back when I stumbled across this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolibertarianism
My favourite part is this:
...means making a political commitment to combat the initiation of force and fraud by the most effective and moral route possible; paleo-libertarians deal in words and thoughts, while neo-libertarians commit themselves to expanding freedom from the rhetorical world to the real world. It's the difference between saying something for freedom and doing something for freedom. Moreover, it's a commitment to the universality of freedom; just as calling oneself 'The Government' cannot legitimately add to one's natural rights, drawing an invisible line on a map and calling it 'The Border' cannot legitimately subtract from one's natural rights. People in foreign lands have the same natural rights as people in the house next door; neo-libertarianism is about finding the most practical ways to stop infringements against the liberty of those around the globe, including the use of force if necessary, just as we would use local police and courts to stop infringements of liberty next door. Put more succinctly: Individuals are the only morally significant unit of political economy. Individuals are imbued with infinite liberties circumscribed only by the rights of others to not be coerced or defrauded. The central right of humanity is the right to resist an aggressor, even if you aren't the victim.
Libertarians in the olden days believed that that the path to a free society was through education first then action. If you think about it it makes perfect sense and that they made the right decision! If they didn't write books, papers and, newsletters and etc then we wouldn't have anything to work with or we would have to take the time to write and do it ourselves.
Those damn libertarians are right again!
A word with neo at the beginning gives that word a futuristic meaning or feel to it. The addition of Neo to a word pretty much means something new and something different!
Michael S: GilesStratton: So it's ok for a poor person to receive welfare? That's what you're saying right? I never said it was ok because they have the choice to become a wage slave
You sound like a Marxist.
GilesStratton: Michael S: GilesStratton: So it's ok for a poor person to receive welfare? That's what you're saying right? I never said it was ok because they have the choice to become a wage slave You sound like a Marxist.
How is that automatically Marxist?
WARNING: This signature violates Rule 5. Stay classy!
Rubén: It is appalling to see how Americans, so confortable and used to the liberties and democracy their founding fathers fought their lives for, are wasting their opportunities to have their say on how their country is run. Not voting is not a solution. The opposition in Venezuela learned the lesson the hard way. In December 2006, due to the osbscene advantages of the official Chavez supporters through the electoral system, most of the opposition candidates decided to withdraw their candidacies into the National Assembl, and the opposition voters supported that move by not voting for the few opposition candidates that still remained in the polls. The result? The National assembly today is composed by 95% or more of Chávez supporterts, clearly not representative of the country's demography. I am not voting for Obama because I am not an American citizen, but I am actively campaigning for him through the internet and college friends appreciate my support and lament I will not be in the polls with them next Tuesday. I do not know if I am a libertarian or not. I know that I enjoy many ideas I read in this forum and I think there are many valuable thougts here that should go into mainstream.
It is appalling to see how Americans, so confortable and used to the liberties and democracy their founding fathers fought their lives for, are wasting their opportunities to have their say on how their country is run.
Not voting is not a solution. The opposition in Venezuela learned the lesson the hard way. In December 2006, due to the osbscene advantages of the official Chavez supporters through the electoral system, most of the opposition candidates decided to withdraw their candidacies into the National Assembl, and the opposition voters supported that move by not voting for the few opposition candidates that still remained in the polls. The result? The National assembly today is composed by 95% or more of Chávez supporterts, clearly not representative of the country's demography.
I am not voting for Obama because I am not an American citizen, but I am actively campaigning for him through the internet and college friends appreciate my support and lament I will not be in the polls with them next Tuesday. I do not know if I am a libertarian or not. I know that I enjoy many ideas I read in this forum and I think there are many valuable thougts here that should go into mainstream.
It's not as appalling as the EU citizens who gave up their rights to the EU! How about you stop criticizing us Americans and start criticizing the Europeans? I mean, after all, there is a EU not a North American Union! You gotta give the Americans some credit, we are putting up a much more and better fight then the Europeans did.
Michael S:You gotta give the Americans some credit, we are putting up a much more and better fight then the Europeans did.
It's like deciding who is less retarded. Americans IMO have not too much to be proud about on the liberty front. The heavy lifting was done generations ago. Today's American would be a despicable creature to the Founding Fathers.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
liberty student: Michael S:You gotta give the Americans some credit, we are putting up a much more and better fight then the Europeans did. It's like deciding who is less retarded. Americans IMO have not too much to be proud about on the liberty front. The heavy lifting was done generations ago. Today's American would be a despicable creature to the Founding Fathers.
Hopefully a such Remnant can emerge & we more or less repeat a similar process the Founding Fathers went through.However, day to day conversations with others is enough to question how long my sanity will last in our current situation.
Rubén:I am not voting for Obama because I am not an American citizen, but I am actively campaigning for him through the internet and college friends appreciate my support and lament I will not be in the polls with them next Tuesday. I do not know if I am a libertarian or not. I know that I enjoy many ideas I read in this forum and I think there are many valuable thougts here that should go into mainstream.
Why the hell are you Helping/campaigning for Obama? Why not help Chuck Baldwin/Castle or maybe even Bob Barr or Nader? LOLZ? Are you helping Obama for principle or because of the color of his skin? I would use the term McObama but since he's mixed I won't
Disclaimer: I am not a racist
Michael S:Disclaimer: I am not a racist Michael
For someone who is not a racist, you seem pretty concerned with race.
Nitroadict:However, day to day conversations with others is enough to question how long my sanity will last in our current situation.
Tell me about it. Some Canadians have the unmitigated gall to look me in the eye, and tell me they like the system because they get things they couldn't buy.
I'm starting to become increasingly disheartened. We're such a small group, and there are literally thousands for every one of us, who are socialized to believe that they are entitled to things, people who have no understanding principle, rational thought, economics anything.
I mean, I get excited when I turn a person or two, but it feels so pointless when confronted with how not everyone I turn has the same passion for evangelism I do. If we can't double our numbers every 12 months, then we're doing something wrong.
Nitroadict: GilesStratton: Michael S: GilesStratton: So it's ok for a poor person to receive welfare? That's what you're saying right? I never said it was ok because they have the choice to become a wage slave You sound like a Marxist. How is that automatically Marxist?
Thank YOU Giles! That Marxist remark you made was perfect, because it proves my point even further! Obviously you thought I was posting my beliefs when in fact, I was telling the reader about the system we have now. nice try though!
liberty student: Michael S:Disclaimer: I am not a racist Michael For someone who is not a racist, you seem pretty concerned with race.
Oh please! Give me a break! I only made some interesting observations! I said the McObama thing because I'm noticing people using that term all over the place! I'm even sure you have used it! Enough said!
Michael S:Oh please! Give me a break! I only made some interesting observations! I said the McObama thing because I'm noticing people using that term all over the place! I'm even sure you have used it! Enough said! Michael
It had nothing to do with McBama. It's just that you would accuse someone you don't know of supporting Obama due to his colour.
That means you're the one with race on the brain. Maybe slow down a little.
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