if we want a stateless society, why dont a team of private investors and political refugees colonize Somalia
do we get free cheezeburger in socielism?
Stranger:But the point is that I love my country. Don't you?
I've traveled a wee bit. I like my country, but in many ways, it is inferior to others I have been to. I don't feel I particularly owe it anything in the way of allegiance or loyalty.
I could learn to love a free country, regardless of the climate or geography. Being free is more important to me than acknowledging my history and the history of my ancestors with a particular state.
@all, I second the Liberty Colony idea. It's possible that an exodus may at one point be the only option left to us. The world is certainly not getting less statist. Things are moving in the wrong direction, and while choosing to stand and fight might be honourable, it's wise to pick the battles you can win. If you can't beat the state, then change the game. Plus the entrepreneurial opportunities for a Liberty Colony could be tremendous.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
John Ess: The liberty colonies all over the world include: (from liberty colony website) AngolaAntigua and Barbuda (Island of Redonda)Burkina FasoComorosDemocratic Republic of the CongoCote d'IvoireDjiboutiDominicaEquatorial GuineaFiji Islands (uninhabited islands)GambiaGreenlandGrenadaGuineaGuinea-BissauHaitiKiribatiLiberiaMalawiMaldivesMarshall IslandsNauruNigerSierra LeoneSolomon IslandsSomaliaSomalilandTogoTongaTuvaluVanuatuWestern Sahara
The liberty colonies all over the world include:
(from liberty colony website)
AngolaAntigua and Barbuda (Island of Redonda)Burkina FasoComorosDemocratic Republic of the CongoCote d'IvoireDjiboutiDominicaEquatorial GuineaFiji Islands (uninhabited islands)GambiaGreenlandGrenadaGuineaGuinea-BissauHaitiKiribatiLiberiaMalawiMaldivesMarshall IslandsNauruNigerSierra LeoneSolomon IslandsSomaliaSomalilandTogoTongaTuvaluVanuatuWestern Sahara
Just to be clear, these are lsited as possible viable locations for the LC. Note, Somalia is one of them. Somaliland is also listed and this is an area traditionally considered part of Somalia but has recently declared it's independence.
fezwhatley: if we want a stateless society, why dont a team of private investors and political refugees colonize Somalia
The answer is some people are working on exactly what you are suggesting. If not actually Somalia, then another place where they believe a free society could be established.
Why don't more people try this? Most people are too comfortable where they are to take the kind of risk necessary to create a free society. When the Pilgrims came to America everyone thought the same about them, why would anyone move to a savage place like America.
Like most things in life, if your the lead dog in something you are often out in front alone. Also, keep in mind if your not the lead dog, the view never changes.
To be honest I feel I've been a little more hostile to the LC than it deserves, mainly due to the way it is presented. I think people think too narrowly about strategies for liberty.
There are simply some people out there who are more willing to go to Africa to start some sort of project like this and it seems silly for the rest of us to stop this. Granted, on one hand it's pulling anarchists out of places in America or wherever else and placing them in Europe but on the other hand it would demonstrate the strengths of the free market. Moreover, if it did work it would create a great example for libertarians to point to, that would show people that we really don't need the state. The problem is getting enough people in my opinion.
On the other hand I don't like to rule out the political approach either. On one hand the chances of using the political means to improve our situation are low but it does provide a platform to voice libertarian ideas. At the end of the day if people are never seriously introduced to these ideas they simply won't believe in them. Ron Paul's campaign shows an example of this, I wouldn't say he is an anarchist and yet he's created a fair few and inspired plenty of others. It has it's flaws and I don't think it's going to work on its own but this doesn't mean we should dismiss it out right.
Then there's agorism, the main advantage of which I see being it's ability to lay the foundations for a libertarian society before we abolish the state. That isn't to say it doesn't have other advantages, such as independance from the state to some extent. In addition to this black market activity does undermine the state (as I understand it).
The most important thing however is just getting the ideas out there to the people. People don't find the New Libertarian Manifesto around the place and if they did they'd be thoroughly turned off by it I daresay. This is where all the ideas come hand in hand. This is why I think many music fans, people out there on torrent sites and the like may be possible targets for libertarian ideas. Even if most bands out that are socialist. Just showing people the difference between the state controlled market (CD stores) and the free market (the access people have to music through the internet) in both fairness and efficiency should be another. I think forums like this are important though for discussion of ideas between libertarians. But introducing libertarian ideas in person is necessary too. Give a friend a copy of The Ethics of Liberty (or send them the PDF), same applies for Callahan or any of the numbers of books for beginners there are out there .
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
Maxliberty: Most people are too comfortable where they are to take the kind of risk necessary to create a free society. When the Pilgrims came to America everyone thought the same about them, why would anyone move to a savage place like America.
Most people are too comfortable where they are to take the kind of risk necessary to create a free society. When the Pilgrims came to America everyone thought the same about them, why would anyone move to a savage place like America.
Most people are too comfortable to bother traveling to Belgium (a very comfortable place)....except for Africans who are sometimes willing to cross the Erg Bilma into Libya, hop on a rickety boat and try to aim for where they think Spain will be. Maybe an arrangment can be made with those folks?
Speaking of comfort and travel...
Who in the re-settlement/colonization movement has actually traveled to these places themselves? Which of these places have you traveled to for scouting purposes?
http://www.comebackalive.com/phpBB2 Travel, Adventure Travel, Arguments, Recipes.
Spain? D:
Well, I suppose that anything sounds better than their old situation.
edit
Those African nations with strong central governments have wonderful economies duuuuuurrhhrhrhrhhr
John hoffman: Yes I am serious. Somalia is a horrible place where warlords reign supreme,
Yes I am serious. Somalia is a horrible place where warlords reign supreme,
Name some and give background information on what qualifies them as "warlords."
What is a "warlord" anyways?Why are they bad?
John hoffman: and there is almost nothing keeping somalia from getting any better.
and there is almost nothing keeping somalia from getting any better.
Sure there is. The US/Ethiopia.
John hoffman: For example the coast of somalia needs to be patrolled because there are many pirates,and agencies that dump pollution into the ocean. For example Somalia recorded its largest fish kill when a few years ago nuclear waste was dumped freely into there waters.
For example the coast of somalia needs to be patrolled because there are many pirates,and agencies that dump pollution into the ocean. For example Somalia recorded its largest fish kill when a few years ago nuclear waste was dumped freely into there waters.
Funny, because it seems that those "pirates" only arrived after the US supported their war on the Somali people - specifically the Hawiye - destabilizing the region again.
Being bombed breeds chaos? NO WAY!
Same chaos happened in Serbia when Clinton bombed the Serbs, you realize? Of course, it must be a lack of a strong central government though...
John hoffman: Furthermore the inland water is very unsafe and has all types of microbes that may cause anything from cholera to hepatitis. it would take a massive investment in order to repair somalia,and the difficulty would be to great for any large investment firm to take on.
Furthermore the inland water is very unsafe and has all types of microbes that may cause anything from cholera to hepatitis.
it would take a massive investment in order to repair somalia,and the difficulty would be to great for any large investment firm to take on.
So that's why the Chinese have been poking their noses in and out of the Eastern African coastal areas! It makes perfect sense now! Must be why the led paint got in your toys too.
On a serious note though. People, shut up about Somalia. You, probably, have little to no idea what you're talking about. Somalia is a complicated region with a complicated history. Add that to the equation of being in a complicated time, and these simplistic terms like "warlord society" really only serve to do one thing - expose your idiocy.
The Origins of Capitalism
And for more periodic bloggings by moi,
Leftlibertarian.org
Did I miss something? I thought Niccolo was banned.
Too many Somalians.
Niccolò: On a serious note though. People, shut up about Somalia. You, probably, have little to no idea what you're talking about. Somalia is a complicated region with a complicated history. Add that to the equation of being in a complicated time, and these simplistic terms like "warlord society" really only serve to do one thing - expose your idiocy.
None of which changes the fact that it is run by warlords and inhabited by superstitious fanatics. And that it is not desirable to live there.
John Ess: None of which changes the fact that it is run by warlords and inhabited by superstitious fanatics. And that it is not desirable to live there.
It's fun to make unbacked assertions and call people with a religion "superstitious fanatics" like a fanatic Randroid.
Read above that and then you may speak to me. Otherwise, just go and blow it out your
show me a successful stateless society and I'll show you the next place that will get raped and pillaged by its inferior, poorer, better armed and jealous neighbours (and you want to set this up in Africa!!!). Human nature is not geared for freedom. We need our leaders, our hierarchies, our silly laws and restraints or else our own nature will force us into something more savage and even less free. Look at perhaps the most anarchic, capitalist orientated americans - the Hells Angels... you want to be a biker, be my guest....
The best we can hope for is benevolent dictatorships that foster economic prosperity for all and a sound base for health and education. The best I've been to for that is Singapore. Anyone can start a business, discrimination is very low (as long as you're literate), govt tax and regulation is at a bare minimum and the infrastructure is first class.
Just don't spray paint any cars.... seriously!
baoinvestor: show me a successful stateless society and I'll show you the next place that will get raped and pillaged by its inferior, poorer, better armed and jealous neighbours (and you want to set this up in Africa!!!). Human nature is not geared for freedom. We need our leaders, our hierarchies, our silly laws and restraints or else our own nature will force us into something more savage and even less free. Look at perhaps the most anarchic, capitalist orientated americans - the Hells Angels... you want to be a biker, be my guest.... The best we can hope for is benevolent dictatorships that foster economic prosperity for all and a sound base for health and education. The best I've been to for that is Singapore. Anyone can start a business, discrimination is very low (as long as you're literate), govt tax and regulation is at a bare minimum and the infrastructure is first class. Just don't spray paint any cars.... seriously!
Anyone talking about "human nature" is inevitably just referring to his own nature.
You're disgusting with that being the case.
I would say a country that is 100 percent one religious belief (Sunni Islam) is pretty fanatical. And not just in the sports team type way.
I don't want to live in the Vatican, either. They are irrational fanatics, too.
If that is your prerogative, go right to it.
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