I don't understand. The government is telling us that the businesses that mishandled their businesses need more of our business (taxes) so they can stay in business. If the government's excuse for spreading it's tyranny is to help the economy, then why reward the losers when so many others are winning? Does it make more sense for winners or losers to be at the economic helm?
Or how about there simply be free men at the helm, huh? Whatever happened to that concept? It really sickens me to see this great nation succumbing such levels of socialism. I despise socialism and I'm just torn up about the direction were headed.
Anyone else out there feeling insecure about the future? I feel like I'm seeing something dreadful approach and can't do anything or am unwilling to do anything. It really hurts. We need a voice.
"The best way to bail out the economy is with liberty, not with federal reserve notes." - pairunoyd
"The vision of the Austrian must be greater than the blindness of the sheeple." - pairunoyd
gu3st: Speaking of apathy, there's an interesting point Edward Griffin from Freedom Force International made about it. What causes a lot of apathy is a lack of perceived solution, the belief that there's nothing we can do and that we are powerless. He further concluded that when we approach people and try to convince them how government is bad and everything is wrong we actually breed apathy into them because their most likely reaction would be "what's the point of listening to this, there's nothing you can do anyway". So it seems that it's important that when we talk to people we make sure that we offer some sort of a concrete strategy, a proposed solution; something we CAN do to make a difference and which really does seem like an effective thing to do. Sure, this wouldn't cure everyone's apathy, but it would probably result in a higher chances of people listening and taking you seriously - because at least you've got a plan and you're doing it! The trouble is, however, that most voluntaryists/anarcho-capitalists today don't really have a concrete plan. It all comes down to a few cases of civil disobedience that most people either ignore or ridicule, a few web sites read mostly by the "friends" publishing articles from our point of view and trying to spread the idea, but the real organized effort with efficiency in mind is not quite there. I personally favor agorism, because as a voluntaryist I can't support political action towards change. This means that my means is purely market means. Unfortunately there are very few people who seem to share this strategy and there's very little actually happening in the agorist movement. Even suggestions of developing a business without paying taxes to generate wealth that can be invested into more of the liberty oriented agorist activities are met by criticism and excuses. And so long as we don't know what exactly is our strategy, we can't expect other people to overcome apathy and become enthusiastic about the cause. As my mom tends to say, we know everything is wrong, but what can you do? She's even afraid that I wont do "something stupid". The safest option is doing nothing, and just adapting to the system no matter how totalitarian it becomes.
Speaking of apathy, there's an interesting point Edward Griffin from Freedom Force International made about it. What causes a lot of apathy is a lack of perceived solution, the belief that there's nothing we can do and that we are powerless. He further concluded that when we approach people and try to convince them how government is bad and everything is wrong we actually breed apathy into them because their most likely reaction would be "what's the point of listening to this, there's nothing you can do anyway".
So it seems that it's important that when we talk to people we make sure that we offer some sort of a concrete strategy, a proposed solution; something we CAN do to make a difference and which really does seem like an effective thing to do. Sure, this wouldn't cure everyone's apathy, but it would probably result in a higher chances of people listening and taking you seriously - because at least you've got a plan and you're doing it!
The trouble is, however, that most voluntaryists/anarcho-capitalists today don't really have a concrete plan. It all comes down to a few cases of civil disobedience that most people either ignore or ridicule, a few web sites read mostly by the "friends" publishing articles from our point of view and trying to spread the idea, but the real organized effort with efficiency in mind is not quite there.
I personally favor agorism, because as a voluntaryist I can't support political action towards change. This means that my means is purely market means. Unfortunately there are very few people who seem to share this strategy and there's very little actually happening in the agorist movement. Even suggestions of developing a business without paying taxes to generate wealth that can be invested into more of the liberty oriented agorist activities are met by criticism and excuses.
And so long as we don't know what exactly is our strategy, we can't expect other people to overcome apathy and become enthusiastic about the cause. As my mom tends to say, we know everything is wrong, but what can you do? She's even afraid that I wont do "something stupid". The safest option is doing nothing, and just adapting to the system no matter how totalitarian it becomes.
Heard of Ron Paul? lol.
I also fear for the future. And because the government education system has managed to keep the vast majority clueless about economics they are all truging along like lambs going to be slaughtered. Hopfully Americans still have enough love of freedom that if they knew what was going on they would be grabbing their guns and pitchforks to clean out the den of vipers. But it is hard to arrouse the people against a threat that they have been purpossly taught not to understand.
You are joking right?
Looks like we are on a path to New Deal 2.0 to me.
pairunoyd: No epiphany. Ive been a free-marketer since I was in my early 20's. I'll soon be 43. It's just I've never seen such forboding circumstances. Yea, I discuss issues w/ people. I work w/ a guy that was born into communism. He came here when Slovakia became independent, looking for a better country. But guess what. Even after being under communism and seeing it's ruinous ways, first hand, he wants Obama and every other freedom-taker in office!!! I've talked to him several times, making what I thought were good points, but he steadfastly continues to support the type government he fled from! lol He's never even heard of Ron Paul. The guy is so pro-socialist and unreceptive that even after our many talks, he assumed I would vote for Obama. I was dumbfounded.... It'd be like assuming a fire-and-brimstone preacher is gonna vote for the devil! I've said this on here before. Liberty needs a PR campaign. 80+% of the voters out there are clueless. And how can so-called black conservatives vote for Obama? No, I am NOT a McCain supporter. Gag me w/ a spoon. They all disgust me, except for Ron Paul. Sadly, however, I don't think Ron Paul has enough charisma to attain that office. I wish he had the political ability of someone like Ronald Reagan w/ the ideology he now espouses. I know that the 70's had some bad times, but I think this current era just might be the beginning of the end. I'm also a Christian, so I tend to see things in an apocalyptic way. For instance, I find it to be beyond coincidence that Iraq's former leader's name, Hussein, is also our most likely president's name. That's just unbelievable.
No epiphany. Ive been a free-marketer since I was in my early 20's. I'll soon be 43. It's just I've never seen such forboding circumstances.
Yea, I discuss issues w/ people. I work w/ a guy that was born into communism. He came here when Slovakia became independent, looking for a better country. But guess what. Even after being under communism and seeing it's ruinous ways, first hand, he wants Obama and every other freedom-taker in office!!! I've talked to him several times, making what I thought were good points, but he steadfastly continues to support the type government he fled from! lol
He's never even heard of Ron Paul. The guy is so pro-socialist and unreceptive that even after our many talks, he assumed I would vote for Obama. I was dumbfounded.... It'd be like assuming a fire-and-brimstone preacher is gonna vote for the devil!
I've said this on here before. Liberty needs a PR campaign. 80+% of the voters out there are clueless. And how can so-called black conservatives vote for Obama? No, I am NOT a McCain supporter. Gag me w/ a spoon. They all disgust me, except for Ron Paul. Sadly, however, I don't think Ron Paul has enough charisma to attain that office. I wish he had the political ability of someone like Ronald Reagan w/ the ideology he now espouses.
I know that the 70's had some bad times, but I think this current era just might be the beginning of the end. I'm also a Christian, so I tend to see things in an apocalyptic way. For instance, I find it to be beyond coincidence that Iraq's former leader's name, Hussein, is also our most likely president's name. That's just unbelievable.
I just got-a-thinking while reading your post, that Isn't it possible with good planning that other governments, I.E dictators could be set up as dictators intentionally so once their Citizens do come to the USA they will promote A socialist government here in the USA? I mean After all, on the surface, our socialist/fascist form of government is the lesser of all evils of the other worlds governments!
Ron: I also fear for the future. And because the government education system has managed to keep the vast majority clueless about economics they are all truging along like lambs going to be slaughtered. Hopfully Americans still have enough love of freedom that if they knew what was going on they would be grabbing their guns and pitchforks to clean out the den of vipers. But it is hard to arrouse the people against a threat that they have been purpossly taught not to understand.
How right you are! I have just come back from a dinner with my parents and just listening to my father served as yet another lesson about the disasters compulsory education and mass medias have wrought on decent, hard-working people.
As much as I love the Germanic culture (and I have more than a drop of their blood in my veins) their invention of compulsory schooling will always be stain on their reputation.
Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!
Kakugo: As much as I love the Germanic culture (and I have more than a drop of their blood in my veins) their invention of compulsory schooling will always be stain on their reputation.
The Prussian anthill also gave us Social Security.
And, you didn't accept Hitler into art school.
gu3st:So it seems that it's important that when we talk to people we make sure that we offer some sort of a concrete strategy, a proposed solution
DING, that is correct sir. www.libertycolony.com is just one idea to consider.
gu3st:Unfortunately there are very few people who seem to share this strategy and there's very little actually happening in the agorist movement.
I have had this discussion quite a bit and I feel your pain.
gu3st:Even suggestions of developing a business without paying taxes to generate wealth that can be invested into more of the liberty oriented agorist activities are met by criticism and excuses.
Join the revolution my friend. There are lots of opportunities in the Liberty Colony. Currently working on a gold backed currency system. Interested in becoming involved?
LibertyColony looks like an interesting project, purely voluntaryist it seems?
I have to say though I am not in USA and one thing I noticed on the sign up page is that you can select only US states. I already know about the Free State Project, but moving to USA from here is not going to be an easy feat, especially in these days. Frankly, despite what people in the Free State Project are building and the hope that they're showing, some of the things that are happening in US makes me wonder if I really want to be there.
Some might call it running instead of fighting, but it does seem like a good idea to find a yet neutral place somewhere (if such a place exists) and build our own little society in it. I no longer believe the most effective way to change the world is to constantly work solely on changing the system or other people. The best way to change the world is to change yourself. If you want freedom, free yourself! Some may call it running, I call it "building freedom".
Anyway, would be nice to accept non-US memberships in the project. I can't promise I'll join it, but it's something to consider.
Thanks
pairunoyd: I don't understand. The government is telling us that the businesses that mishandled their businesses need more of our business (taxes) so they can stay in business. If the government's excuse for spreading it's tyranny is to help the economy, then why reward the losers when so many others are winning? Does it make more sense for winners or losers to be at the economic helm? Or how about there simply be free men at the helm, huh? Whatever happened to that concept? It really sickens me to see this great nation succumbing such levels of socialism. I despise socialism and I'm just torn up about the direction were headed. Anyone else out there feeling insecure about the future? I feel like I'm seeing something dreadful approach and can't do anything or am unwilling to do anything. It really hurts. We need a voice.
Because they are in bed with the losers
You are so right. It makes me wanna blow my top when I see the upside down reality of government's reward system. People laugh at me when I talk about saving money or investing in precious metals. If they make $2000/mth, they're going to spend $2000+. They say, "Hey, you can't take it with you!" That's fine and dandy as a personal choice, but when hard times come the government will be more than happy to take my savings and spread it around. GRRRRRR!
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