What sorts of examples of private or semi private, non-state, armies can I add to the list of those libertarian(esque) forces who successfully repelled invasions? It is often said that the private forces are outweighed or outdone by invading state regimes and therefore anarchic society cannot survive or that the state is therefore superior/better/lasting/stable.
[The militia armies of the American revolution are a good example however it is usually put forward that they were ineffectual and any success they did have was from their mixing with colonial regulars (and this is usually generally accepted... unfortunately)]
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ThorsMitersaw: [The militia armies of the American revolution are a good example however it is usually put forward that they were ineffectual and any success they did have was from their mixing with colonial regulars (and this is usually generally accepted... unfortunately)]
The Revolution is a bad example, because the rebels received a great deal of foreign help from the French and Spanish governments. The siege on Fort McHenry and the Battle of New Orleans are better examples, because in both cases the Americans single-handedly defended their independence against much stronger invaders.
"As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable."
Given there is not been an anarcho-capitalist society in existence it is very hard to find the equivalent of a private defence agency. But here are some.
Privateers - made naval warfare a commerical enterprise - were used in the American war of independence and war of 1812.
Guerilla War - From the Napoleonic war, through second world war to modern day Iraq and Afghanistan these stateless armies have tied down the best state armies of the world. Low-cost IED's can destroy American Tanks quite spectacularly (I'm not suggesting the Iraqi insurgents were libertarians but they certainly were stateless).
Do private military contractors count?
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private military contractors or mercenaries are employed by the state so they wouldn't be a good example.
I'm asking the OP, not you. In any case, PMCs are an example of semi-private military, which the OP asked about. They are also an example of less people doing a better job for a lower cost than a government bureaucracy.
Whilst it's not an example of private armies driving an invade out, how about Iraq?
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ThorsMitersaw:What sorts of examples of private or semi private, non-state, armies can I add to the list of those libertarian(esque) forces who successfully repelled invasions?
Simple. A guy comes into my home intending to kill me but I shoot him first (or if you prefer, I hire someone else to shoot him). My private army has successfully repelled an invader. A conventionally sized private military repelling a conventionally sized invading force is just an extension of this situation.
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It depends very much on how you define "private". For example the Condottieri system in XIV and XV century Italy is an example: Venice, Florence, Milan or whoever hired a captain of renown and his personal army to wage war for them. The beautiful irony in this system was it was basically a huge game of chess: when one side was outmanouvered it simply gave up and surrendered with very little (if any) bloodshed. No point in losing precious men or fighting against a good friend or a person who next year will be fighting alongside you. This all came crushing down when Charles VIII of France came crashing in and taught them a lesson in "real" warfare at Fornovo in 1495.
Another example is the similar system which prevailed in Europe during the raising years of the gunpowder up to the Thirty Years War. For example the Hapsburg Emperor or the Dutch Staatholder, instead of hiring a national army, contracted with a leader of renown, like the celebrated Pappenheim or the infamous Maurice of Saxony, to raise and lead an army for them. This system was not universally employed since national armies were already coming into being.
Final example are the Germanic warbands (mainly Goths, Haeruli, Gepidae and to a lesser extent Lombards) so common during the final era of the Roman Empire. A capable and strong leader (he may have been a prince of royal blood as well as a proven and popular veteran) rallied to him a group of warriors as personal followers who swore, out of their own free will, to serve under his orders and fight alongside him. These men could be his own kin or subjects, foreign adventures or even remains of broken tribes, it mattered not. In return for their oath and their services the leader distributed among them the "fruits of their labor", be them mere pluder or, more often, money obtained by fighting for the Romans as mercenaries. The Byzantines were very quick to make this system their own and during the Gothic Wars both Belisarius and Narses led armies of veterans who were, more often than not, their own "men", bound by a personal oath of service. This system later fell in disuse, owing to the the will to limit the personal power of military leaders, but still survived for the Foederati and other mercenaries, who were required not to sign a contract but to make a personal oath of service to the Byzantine Emperor.
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Kakugo: It depends very much on how you define "private". For example the Condottieri system in XIV and XV century Italy is an example: Venice, Florence, Milan or whoever hired a captain of renown and his personal army to wage war for them. The beautiful irony in this system was it was basically a huge game of chess: when one side was outmanouvered it simply gave up and surrendered with very little (if any) bloodshed. No point in losing precious men or fighting against a good friend or a person who next year will be fighting alongside you. This all came crushing down when Charles VIII of France came crashing in and taught them a lesson in "real" warfare at Fornovo in 1495.
Impressive. I just finished a book on The Medici that mentioned this very incident.
An example related to this is John Hawkwood of the White Company, Which was similar to the PMCs of today. These all were in service to a State though but there is no reason to doubt that they could have served private interests as well.
Also I think it is good not to focus only on "private armies" that exist as profitable corporations. A militia or even a neighborhood watch could be an example of a successful private security endeavor even if no profit is made asside from that of protection.
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Twirlcan:Also I think it is good not to focus only on "private armies" that exist as profitable corporations. A militia or even a neighborhood watch could be an example of a successful private security endeavor even if no profit is made asside from that of protection.
I remember there was either a Newsweek or National Geographic article about Shia neighborhoods having armed militias to protect them in the Sunni Triangle in Iraq. A problem, however, was that these militias were limited in their arsenal and the extent of their operations due to law. Another example of the state screwing *** up?
A possible example is the company the de Beers diamond corporation is reputed to have employed in securing Sierra Leone (Executive Outcomes), which succeeded in doing what UN peacekeepers failed at. The problem here though is that de Beers benefits significantly from state coercion.
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I thought Executive Outcomes was hired by the Sierra Leone government to fight off the RUF.
Yeah, that too. Here is what I am referring to.
krazy kaju: I thought Executive Outcomes was hired by the Sierra Leone government to fight off the RUF.
Valentine Strasser ..the very young ex president of Sierra Leone is the one that hired them when he was president. He became president in a coup d' etat that came about when he and some other young officers came to visit the office of President Kanu and the president thought they were there to oust him so he fled. They had just come to ask him for their late pay. So he ended up in power by accident.
EO was also hired by the government of PNG to secure a copper mine on Bougainville. Oddly the locals did not want their home island destroyed by Mercury filled tailings and successfully resisted the predations of the PNG government and EO.
Right now, private militaries will be used and profit from states but there is no reason to believe that is the only way they can exist.
Yet another example is William's invasion of England of 1066. His army was not a feudal levy, but a sort of congregation of adventures with him in charge as managing director. To save appearances (and get more money out of it, of course) the whole Norman baronage refused to serve him as vassals but decided to follow him wholesale "out of their own free will", ie they accepted to share risks in return for a share of the loot. The expedition also included very large contingents of adventurers from all over Europe, going as far as the Norman kingdom of Sicily.
And how to forget the First Crusade? All partecipants were volunteers and there was no national government behind, though a few contingents (for example Robert Curthose's) were financed through extraordinary taxation back home.
Simon Lote: Privateers - made naval warfare a commerical enterprise - were used in the American war of independence and war of 1812.
I believe that Elizabeth 1's navy (which claimed to have defeated the Spanish Armada) comprised of Privateers - Sir Francis Drake et al. It also explains why these same captains were so zealous in attacking and plundering the the Spanish treasure ships returning to Spain from South America.
What about the East India Company? It was granted a State monopoly to exploit India, and from what I can remember, Clive of India ran a pretty much autonomous army and conquered a sizable piece of India.
And isn't the Vatican's army made up of Swiss mercenaries?
How would the following hypothetical states (from an alternate universe) survive?
- Anarcho-capitalist France against the German Invasion (WW1)
- AC UK against the German Bombings (WW2)
- AC Austria/Eastern Europe against invasions of the Russian Empire/Otoman Empire.
- AC anything against the Roman Empire.
To me it seems like the Anarcho-Capitalist states would get heavily beaten in each case, as it's far easier to send countless soldiers to die (or face execution) than to convince individuals that fighting against the odds is a better option than to surrender/run away.
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