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Anarcho Capitalism

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hayekianxyz Posted: Fri, Aug 29 2008 11:38 AM

Is Anarcho Capitalism not the worst possible choice name for what most market anarchists or libertarian anarchists believe in?

The leftists, or at least the "anarcho" socialists, won't hesitate to interpret the word in the sense of corporatism, and ultimately whether or not you believe capitalism means free market capitalism or state capitalism, most people associate it with corporatism to some extent. Even if you do truly intepret it in the free market sense of the word, it makes no sense trying to salvage the word for the mere sake of it, and I think doing so would do more harm than good.

Alternatively, anarchy has negative connotations, most statists associate it with the anarcho socialism and these are the people who don't simply think anarchy refers to chaos, and consider anarchists to be a bunch of bomb throwing thugs. The leftists don't even consider us to be true anarchists, so why not let them have the word and adopt out own.

Who was the first person to begin using the term anarcho capitalism? It doesn't even sound particularly nice.

Even libertarianism now is most often linked with minarchists and conservatives, who whilst superficially would appear to be allies, still believe in government. It doesn't make sense to associate with minarchists even if they do want to shrink the current size of the state, because at the end of the day there's a far bigger difference between no government and limited government than there is between limited government and any other form of government. The minarchists are still deluded into thinking we can control and reform government. Not to mention most minarchists are merely vulgar libertarians.

The point I'm trying to make is that these words make no sense, in using them we get linked to all sorts of ideologies that we are opposed to.

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Stranger replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 11:59 AM

GilesStratton:

Is Anarcho Capitalism not the worst possible choice name for what most market anarchists or libertarian anarchists believe in?

 

Most definitely.

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Byzantine replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 12:33 PM

Angryyoungmanism? 

Just kidding.  You raise good points but I don't know the answer.

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wombatron replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 12:48 PM

I agree with you.  That's why I prefer to call myself an agorist.  "Aristotelian liberal" is more accurate, but its a mouthful.  Just "liberal" would be ideal, but there is much to be done on the semantic battlefields before I can get away with that Stick out tongue

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I think liberal has been lost forever, which is a shame, it's far nicer than libertarian. Classical liberal is a possible alternative, but I think to somebody who had never heard of the term it would be misunderstood.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

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ama gi replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 3:08 PM

The problem with "anarcho-capitalism" is that anarchy is highly misunderstood, as is capitalism.  I prefer to use the word "libertarian" because it is closely related to the word liberty.  To distinguish us from minarchists and small-government conservatives, I would add and adjective like "absolutist libertarianism" or "stateless libertarianism".  Alphabet soup, I know.....

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GilesStratton:
Is Anarcho Capitalism not the worst possible choice name for what most market anarchists or libertarian anarchists believe in?

Not for me. Fits me perfectly. I don't care what others think of the term, either. It's their problem if they don't understand it or hate it so much that they wish to strawman it. I'm also an atheist, which some people link with communism or satanism. Do I care about that? Not in the least. Not my problem. Let them educate themselves.

 

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Personally I feel the term anarcho-capitalist is merely a specific form of market anarchist, and thus is valid (contra "anarcho"-collectivists.) Both capitalism and anarchism (not anarchy) are misunderstood words though, and make it difficult to sell the idea. Other options are voluntaryist (I'm not enamoured with it), private property anarchist, polycentric order, catallaxy (it is suitable IMO), agorist, (classical) liberal &c. I like the term liberal best, but it is impossible to reclaim it without significant effort. So for the time being I refer to myself as an anarcho-capitalist, anarcho-collectivists and authoritarians be damned.

-Jon

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I see voluntaryist as a much better choice than anarcho capitalism. Whereas anarcho capitalism has many negative connotations, voluntaryism doesn't, not to mention voluntaryism is far clearer in its meaning than either capitalism or anarchism.

 

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

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GilesStratton:

I see voluntaryist as a much better choice than anarcho capitalism. Whereas anarcho capitalism has many negative connotations, voluntaryism doesn't, not to mention voluntaryism is far clearer in its meaning than either capitalism or anarchism.

 

I agree, the word anarcho capitalism can be sound scary to a lot of people, because

people keep on hijacking the terms that the free market people are using.

the word Liberalism back in the days was a good word , but now if you say that word,

people will think democrats.

The word voluntaryist or voluntarysm on the other hand is a very clear term,

people who hate free market and capitalism would have a hard time

hijacking the word, volutaryist/voluntarysm

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Juan replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 6:58 PM
But technically 'we' are anarchists ? If I advocate the end of the territorial monopoly of coercion aka state, then I am at least in a narrow sense, an anarchist ?

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Yes, which is why I don't think the word should simply be ceded to anarcho-collectivists. Their case for excluding market anarchism/anarcho-capitalism is flimsy.

-Jon

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I'm not denying that what we would describe as market anarchists are anarchists, what I'm saying is that it's more practical to adopt another word such as voluntaryist than define ourself as anarcho capitalists which has negative connotations to many people from the word go.

I think that people will look more favourably upon somebody refering to themselves as a voluntaryist than somebody refering to themselves as an anarchist. In any case refering to yourself as an anarcho capitalist seems silly to me, either your an anarchist or a statist, you either accept whatever form of society develops upon abolishing government or you advocate the use of coercion to change it. That's exactly why I find it funny that most anarcho collectivists deny "our" status as anarchists, I suspect most of them are just closest statists who hate the free market and private property more than they hate the state.

Nonetheless, voluntaryism seems far more appealing to anarchism which will bring images of leftist thugs to mind for most people.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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Mlee replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 7:14 PM

We could confuse people and call ourselves Modern Day Abolitionists. However, it makes me think of hippies with guns.

Voluntaryism sounds nice, people will most likely react positivily to the term. It doesn't sound to foriegn and has no immediate negitve connotations.

Agorist is more specific, and has more precise implications beyond simple opinions and views, so the term, IMO should either only be used in debates with the well informed who understand what Agorism actually is, or in situations where the dicussion has advanced to a degree where the practical side of (Fill in space here) can be introduced.

Anarcho-Capitalism sounds confusing, and mixes up connotions of words.

Market Anarchist sounds interesting, sense the word market doesn't have connotations that oppose anarchy, while at the same time, it doesn't have connotations that work well with the conventional idea of anarchy. It is something which begs questions. The biggest problem I see is with socialists, who see "Market" as negitive, where I believe most see it as a neutral term, and will shut their minds from the getgo.

At least that's my take.

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Solomon replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 7:55 PM

Peter Griffin:

I agree, the word anarcho capitalism can be sound scary to a lot of people, because

people keep on hijacking the terms that the free market people are using.

the word Liberalism back in the days was a good word , but now if you say that word,

people will think democrats.

The word voluntaryist or voluntarysm on the other hand is a very clear term,

people who hate free market and capitalism would have a hard time

hijacking the word, volutaryist/voluntarysm

 

Yeah, I've become increasingly fond of 'voluntaryist' as well, as the term suggests noncoercion as the basis of political ethics.  Of course I still like 'anarcho-capitalist' since it's more in vogue, and the term has a somewhat acerbic sound to it that suits my tastes.Wink

 

Byzantine:
Angryyoungmanism? 

I like that one too. lol

Same with propertarian.

Diminishing Marginal Utility - IT'S THE LAW!

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I think it just sounds clumsy.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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Solomon replied on Fri, Aug 29 2008 8:08 PM

It grows on you.

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Hasn't so far.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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wombatron replied on Sat, Aug 30 2008 12:09 AM

Mlee:
Market Anarchist sounds interesting, sense the word market doesn't have connotations that oppose anarchy, while at the same time, it doesn't have connotations that work well with the conventional idea of anarchy. It is something which begs questions. The biggest problem I see is with socialists, who see "Market" as negitive, where I believe most see it as a neutral term, and will shut their minds from the getgo.

The problem with "market anarchist" is that it is a rather broad term: it includes mutualists and individualist anarchists in the tradition of Proudhon, Spooner, and Tucker, as well as anarcho-"capitalists", voluntaryists, geoanarchists, agorists, and even some syndicalists.  Although there is a lot of common ground among all of the above, there are also significant differences, if you wish to be specific.  And "Rothbardian market anarchism", the best and most descriptive term, is one heck of a mouthful... Hmm

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Mlee replied on Sat, Aug 30 2008 1:09 AM

Perhaps Market Anarchism could be a Gateway term.

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