I will be a senior in high school very soon, and every year, my socialist teachers spoon feed lies to the students. Most of the students believe anything they hear from a teacher. Whenever I try to prove one of my teachers wrong, I either get into trouble, or the other students just blow it off because they know the all-knowing teacher cannot possibly be wrong. For example...one of my teachers said in order to end "the divide" in America, it might be a good idea to have congress represent the population more accurately. By this he meant that the number of people from each racial group in congress, should be proportional to the population of people in each racial group in the United States. My fellow students all thought this was a wonderful idea, and that it seemed fair. I would like to know if stuff like this is normal in public schools? I would also like to know why so many teachers are against private schools, and schools competing? The students would obviously learn more, and we could choose to go to a school we liked. The teachers would also benafit, wouldn't they? Wounldn't competition allow for the best teachers wages to rise? It seems like everybody benafits, but apparently not...becasue so many people are against school competition. Finally, I have heard some people say we should allow private schools to truely compete with public schools. Would privatising all schools just be a better idea?
By the way, does anyone have any book recommendations? I recently read "What has Government Done to our Money"(Murray Rothbard), and "Human Action"(Ludwig von Mises). I am trying to find a book less difficult than Human Action, but still interesting and informative. Thx.
I recommend you to read The Libertarian Manifesto and The Creature From Jekyll Island, both are easy to read
I left high school two years ago. Sadly, the situation hasn't improved much at university.
Eric:For example...one of my teachers said in order to end "the divide" in America, it might be a good idea to have congress represent the population more accurately. By this he meant that the number of people from each racial group in congress, should be proportional to the population of people in each racial group in the United States.
Ha! How exactly will having racially based appointments to government resolve tensions?
Eric:I would also like to know why so many teachers are against private schools, and schools competing? The students would obviously learn more, and we could choose to go to a school we liked. The teachers would also benafit, wouldn't they? Wounldn't competition allow for the best teachers wages to rise? It seems like everybody benafits, but apparently not...becasue so many people are against school competition.
They hate schools competing for the same reasons everybody hates competing. It's hard. You have to bust your gut in the open market to provide a superior service to customers. It's much easier to lobby for protection from competition from the government. When a group lobbies for an increase in income without increasing their productivity it is called Rent-seeking activity.
You're right when you say that the best teachers would benefit more. However the worst teachers ensure that this doesn't happen. Sadly, the best teachers are underpaid, while the worst are very much overpaid.
Eric:Finally, I have heard some people say we should allow private schools to truely compete with public schools. Would privatising all schools just be a better idea?
Don't forget that ALL schools must have accreditation from the government to exist. This way the government regulates the WHOLE education market. You first have to get abolish that, then privatise. Or, rather de-socialise.
Eric:By the way, does anyone have any book recommendations? I recently read "What has Government Done to our Money"(Murray Rothbard), and "Human Action"(Ludwig von Mises). I am trying to find a book less difficult than Human Action, but still interesting and informative. Thx.
I'm "reading" the Ethics of Liberty audiobook right now. I suppose For A New Liberty must be good. If you've read Mises you are already much more knowledgeable than me I'm afraid.
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Im looking up all the books you guys recommended and they all look really good. Thx for the answers MathewWilliam. I'm going to have a word with my teachers when I get back in school.
No problem!
It's not always advisable to create conflict with people who could be deciding your examination marks in your last year of school though.
And you're sure to run into the argument "but..but...without government schools poor people could never afford it". Just point out that the government is usually the culprit if a good becomes out of reach from the populace.
Teachers give up their guaranteed pay raises and have to actually compete to get them based on performance, you've got to be kidding me...
MatthewWilliam: Eric:By the way, does anyone have any book recommendations? I recently read "What has Government Done to our Money"(Murray Rothbard), and "Human Action"(Ludwig von Mises). I am trying to find a book less difficult than Human Action, but still interesting and informative. Thx. I'm "reading" the Ethics of Liberty audiobook right now. I suppose For A New Liberty must be good. If you've read Mises you are already much more knowledgeable than me I'm afraid.
I've listened to both those Rothbard audiobooks and they really don't expand off each other very much. If you had to chose only one The Ethics of Liberty is the superior choice IMHO since it goes into much more depth than For A New Liberty.
Man, Economy and State is a good read on the economic matters but I still haven't finished it nor have read Human Action for compairson.
I just wish there were more audiobooks out there since I have a lot more time to listen than read, I've taken to the bittorrent to get them these days but just for the 'classics'. Once I get to a real internet connection I plan on downloading all 2.2G/56 hours of Atlas Shrugged to see what all the hullabaloo is about, I might just buy that one to save some time though.
Eric: I will be a senior in high school very soon, and every year, my socialist teachers spoon feed lies to the students. Most of the students believe anything they hear from a teacher. Whenever I try to prove one of my teachers wrong, I either get into trouble, or the other students just blow it off because they know the all-knowing teacher cannot possibly be wrong. For example...one of my teachers said in order to end "the divide" in America, it might be a good idea to have congress represent the population more accurately. By this he meant that the number of people from each racial group in congress, should be proportional to the population of people in each racial group in the United States. My fellow students all thought this was a wonderful idea, and that it seemed fair. I would like to know if stuff like this is normal in public schools? I would also like to know why so many teachers are against private schools, and schools competing? The students would obviously learn more, and we could choose to go to a school we liked. The teachers would also benafit, wouldn't they? Wounldn't competition allow for the best teachers wages to rise? It seems like everybody benafits, but apparently not...becasue so many people are against school competition. Finally, I have heard some people say we should allow private schools to truely compete with public schools. Would privatising all schools just be a better idea? By the way, does anyone have any book recommendations? I recently read "What has Government Done to our Money"(Murray Rothbard), and "Human Action"(Ludwig von Mises). I am trying to find a book less difficult than Human Action, but still interesting and informative. Thx.
Hi, I have just graduated from a public highschool in northern California where I was the leader of a small but vocal libertarian contingent in our AP social studies program. From what I've gathered, it's fairly common for teacher's to have a rather leftist bent, though you should not let this deter you. When I started out having so-called "Class Versus Taelor Debates", I was mostly on my own; but over time, I found that several of my classmates were sympathetic to my arguments, even if they didn't agree with everything I said. For many people, I was their first real exposure to libertarian thought. And I even once got the class socialist to admitt that minimum wage laws might not be the magical panacea to all of society's problems that he had been led to believe it was. What was most encouraging, though, is that I eventually discovered that several of my friends were actually closet libertarians themselves, but had previously kept quiet in class debates because they didn't feel like taking on the entire class alone. We quickly banded together and formed what came to be mis-identified as the "republican corner" in our AP Government class. Hang in there, and maybe you'll find something similar.
And as far as books go, you might try Man, Economy and State by Murry Rothbard. It's a little less dense than HA, but is still a very well thought out and systematic explaination of Austrian Economics.
You can't take the sky from me.
Im going to be a senior this year also, and i sympothize and can relate to what you have gone through. Most teachers at my school are open about their socialistic philosophies which I regularly debate. It is good to have background knowledge and history of what you're debating, so any book by Rothbard is very helpful. An Introduction to Austrian Economics by Thomas Taylor is also good for basic economic theory.
Good luck this year!
Whoever wants peace among nations must seek to limit the state and its influence most strictly. -Ludwig von Mises
I'll be a senior next year as well, I must say, your situation is certainly similar to my own (though I've been able to convince a few friends of libertarianism). As for teachers and other students - it is not uncommon for them to be horribly and blindly statist. What else do they teach in government high schools, after all, besides the Government is Great view of the world?
The reason teachers in government schools are so opposed to private schools is likely due to what many touched on already - rent-seeking and laziness. Public school teachers earn something in the vicinity of 60% more than their private counterparts, while also working fewer hours on average.
As for book suggestions, Rothbard's Education: Free and Compulsory makes some excellent points regarding the public schools debate that you can use in future discussions. Walter Block's Defending the Undefendable is another great book you should check out if you haven't already. If you aren't already an anarchist, For a New Liberty by Rothbard is excellent at challenging the minarchist assumptions of a need for government to provide certain services, The Myth of National Defense (edited by Hans Hoppe) is a great read in that vein as well.
From a fellow High Schooler, seems living in the South has some benefits, including a lack of overwhelming socialism. When it comes to reading, Personally I would applaud what you have already read, my personal recommendations would be to read ANY of David Friedman's works, since he isn't an Austrian, you might be able to better persuade your econ. teacher (Whose thought is probably similar) to your point of view. A basic part of Anarcho-Capitalist/Market Anarchist canon is the short, easy to read (IMO) and simple (Easy to read is the style of writing, simple is the content) "The Production of Security" Which basically asserts that Governments should have to compete on the open market for the defense of their "clientele". There is another great collection of "book/articles" which was placed free for download as a PDF file (Read it on your computer), is "THe Myth of National Defense." If you REALLY want to get into MA, you could read "Agorist Class Theory" which will REALLY piss of your history teacher.
One of the great advantages of needing books by people who don't believe in intellectual property is that they are willing to give you many of these as PDF files, so you don't have to spend that much money, and people don't even have to see you reading them, not that that is particularlly relevent.
Wow, I didn't think I would see anyone else in high school on this site. I guess I was wrong, haha. That "The Myth Of National Defence" book sounds like something I should read. National Defence is one of the 2 government programs left I still accept as being useful. But I think thats becasue I have not heard the arguments against National Defence yet.
If you don't mind my asking, what is the other government service you see as legitimate? I might be able to direct you to a book on that topic as well.
Ditto. Going into senior year.
I had to read "Naked economics," so now I'm trying to read Rothbard America's Great Depression before school starts asap!
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Morty: If you don't mind my asking, what is the other government service you see as legitimate? I might be able to direct you to a book on that topic as well.
I find myself accepting the government courts for some reason. I guess that would mean government police also. I find a private police and private courts hard to accept at the moment. I am not proud of this.
For a New Liberty has a good section on that: http://mises.org/rothbard/newliberty11.asp
If you want historical examples of private courts, there is:Property Rights in Celtic Irish Law http://mises.org/journals/jls/1_2/1_2_1.pdf
Private Creation and Enforcement of Law - A Historical Case http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Iceland/Iceland.html
Both (and more) can be found in Anarchy and the Law (edited by Edward Stringham).
Wow, there are a lot of high schoolers here. I'm a senior, and glad to know I'm not alone.
Haha! I'm a sneaky bastard and tested out.
See you suckers in college!
Eric:one of my teachers said in order to end "the divide" in America, it might be a good idea to have congress represent the population more accurately. By this he meant that the number of people from each racial group in congress, should be proportional to the population of people in each racial group in the United States. My fellow students all thought this was a wonderful idea, and that it seemed fair.
It's pretty disconcerting to me that people of our generation buy into this dreck; one would think that everybody would realize by now the importance of thinking things through for one's self. I went to private high school, so personally I never had any direct experience with this sort of thing until a couple of semesters ago in my political science class.
This sort of egalitarianism is a relatively new, so as far as I'm aware it hasn't been thoroughly critiqued (I remember Rothbard discussing it in "Freedom, Inequality, Primitivism and the Division of Labor," though he doesn't go into its philosophy too deeply).
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