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"The Dark Knight" and Democracy *Spoiler Alert!*

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wombatron Posted: Sun, Aug 10 2008 6:51 PM

From my blog:


There is one situation that was especially interesting from a moral perspective. The Joker had wired two ferries with explosives. One of the ferries carried criminals from the county jail, and the other held common citizens trying to escape the city. Both boats have the detonator for the other boat's explosives. The Joker had said that he would blow both ferries up at midnight, unless one of the detonators had already been set off.

Here comes the interesting part. The non-criminal boat held a vote to see whether or not they would use the trigger. The vote turned out in favor of blowing the other ferry up. The problem was, no one was willing to do the deed. One man who had been especially vocal about using the detonator volunteered to, and then couldn't carry it out.

This is directly applicable to modern-day statist democracy. People vote for politicians to do things that they wouldn't do themselves, and politicians appoint and order people to do things that they won't do. If the every-day person on street had to carry out a drug bust, or kick out a family of "illegal" immigrants, or forcibly take more than half of their neighbor's pay check, would they be so willing to vote for people to do it for them?

Market anarchist, Linux geek, aspiring Perl hacker, and student of the neo-Aristotelians, the classical individualist anarchists, and the Austrian school.

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mtew replied on Mon, Aug 11 2008 8:05 PM

Great post.

When I'm having a discussion with somebody, that is usually one of the first questions I'll ask: Under what circumstances are you personally willing to use violence? It's pretty amazing how universal the NAP is when taken down to the individual level. Nearly everybody says that they would only use violence to protect themselves and their property.

The trick, though, is getting people to see that getting the government to do your dirty work is no more moral than doing it yourself. People just seem so caught up with the notion that once people get together to form the collective known as the State, the concept that they had previously taken for granted, the NAP, completely goes out the window. The situation is somewhat strange considering how often these same individuals claim the government to be nothing but an extension of "the people." If they really did belived that, they would see that "the people" is only the sum of individual persons, for which the NAP held.

Go figure, though.

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That was a brilliant scene from a brilliant film. That film is one of the very few cases where "the hype" is actually true. The joker was brilliant. The writing was brilliant. The direction was very good as well. The symbolism of Two-Face was also brilliant. Two-Face also chose to put his decisions in the hands of another. Sometimes "the court system" and sometimes a coin. Before he was injured he had a two headed coin that he would flip to decide if he was going to kill someone or not. "Heads you live, tails you die." In other words he chose not to kill anyone. After his injury one side of the coin was blackened. One side of his face was whole, the other side was injured. Now he chose to be - - diabolical. He chose to let his coin (now a 50/50 chance) choose who dies and who lives.

I am an eklektarchist not an anarchist.

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wombatron replied on Mon, Aug 11 2008 8:40 PM

ryanpatgray:

That was a brilliant scene from a brilliant film. That film is one of the very few cases where "the hype" is actually true. The joker was brilliant. The writing was brilliant. The direction was very good as well. The symbolism of Two-Face was also brilliant. Two-Face also chose to put his decisions in the hands of another. Sometimes "the court system" and sometimes a coin. Before he was injured he had a two headed coin that he would flip to decide if he was going to kill someone or not. "Heads you live, tails you die." In other words he chose not to kill anyone. After his injury one side of the coin was blackened. One side of his face was whole, the other side was injured. Now he chose to be - - diabolical. He chose to let his coin (now a 50/50 chance) choose who dies and who lives.

The film did have a lot of libertarian undertones, although of course there were some non-libertarian aspects as well.  I've always thought that Batman was the most libertarian superhero (Superman always seemed rather fascist to me Stick out tongue).

 

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wombatron:

ryanpatgray:

That was a brilliant scene from a brilliant film. That film is one of the very few cases where "the hype" is actually true. The joker was brilliant. The writing was brilliant. The direction was very good as well. The symbolism of Two-Face was also brilliant. Two-Face also chose to put his decisions in the hands of another. Sometimes "the court system" and sometimes a coin. Before he was injured he had a two headed coin that he would flip to decide if he was going to kill someone or not. "Heads you live, tails you die." In other words he chose not to kill anyone. After his injury one side of the coin was blackened. One side of his face was whole, the other side was injured. Now he chose to be - - diabolical. He chose to let his coin (now a 50/50 chance) choose who dies and who lives.

The film did have a lot of libertarian undertones, although of course there were some non-libertarian aspects as well.  I've always thought that Batman was the most libertarian superhero (Superman always seemed rather fascist to me Stick out tongue).

 



I think the relationship between Superman & Batman in the DCAU (DC Animated Universe) hit the nail on the head concerning Superman being a more simplsitic, naive depiction of good that is motivated by emotion easily.  From what I remember, Batman had to frequently "look out" for Superman, especially after when he & Darkseid fought in the JLA Animated Series.

 

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Ramone replied on Sun, Aug 17 2008 1:53 AM

You just reminded me of Red Son.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son

Yeah, I'm a nerd.

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scineram replied on Sun, Aug 17 2008 6:27 AM

Did he have the power to feed 20000000?

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Ramone replied on Sun, Aug 17 2008 1:51 PM

"Luthor runs for, and wins, the American presidency, with Jimmy Olsen as his running-mate. He has succeeded a President "Friedman", whose misrule resulted in food riots and tanks on New York's First Avenue. Whether or not this is the late economist Milton Friedman is unclear. Using his scientific expertise, massive economic capital and dictatorial powers, he returns prosperity to his country, overcoming the secession that had sundered the United States fifteen years beforehand."

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scineram replied on Thu, Aug 21 2008 7:41 PM

Ramone:
Using his scientific expertise, massive economic capital and dictatorial powers, he returns prosperity to his country, overcoming the secession that had sundered the United States fifteen years beforehand."

He fed the remaining 150000 with his own wealth?

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