I've noticed that economics (in the neclassical sense) is really a farce, since economic theory is really bio-socialogical theory about how society is organized and how the earths energy resources are distributed. The fact that we have "schools" of economics speaks to our participation in the inventing social superstructures around the earths natural resources.
Consider so-called intellectual property, binary ones and zero's, lets take the videogame industry, their product because supply is infinite should mean that the industry itself should be entirely unprofitable because, the means of production (actual matter and energy) to duplicate said work is trivial from a cost point of view, and the product itself, once created is not scarce. Applying scarcity economics to things that are not scarce is a form of tyrannical insanity, and the only reason we do, do it, is because our current economic system is really a bio-social political system bent on organizing and classifying people based on what dominant wealthy groups perceive as their interests (wrongly or rightly).
In my example of the intellectual property industry, information is not scarce, what-so-ever, but we're applying out-moded concepts to things that have essentially near infinite supply, and who's supply can always meet demand for negligable cost.
If we ever get to matter replicators (i.e. something like startrek), which is starting to occur now with 3D proto-type printers, the economic system will be radically altered.
Lastly, money is not a neutral store of value, it is an invention that is in fact obsolete, the only reason people are rich is because of population size and the energy resources they control, not primarily because of merit. But there control of the idealogical and psychological superstructures of society and the education system.
It took me a long time to figure out why poverty exists: As populations expand, the geometry of a population determines simply by nature of numbers someone will have to get rich (someone will make a widget everyone in the population wants to buy, etc), and not because of simply because of 'hard work' or any such fallacious notions.
Money is actually a kind of energy, it behaves very much like electricity and other enregy systems and should be studied as such. The old economics based on political ideas, and not science and geometry, is what really perturbs me about our current society.
Money is the primary mechanism of social control, and the price mechanism can be abused ('private tryranny') when population geometry co-incides with highly profitable things that are exchanged for monetary value, and because we do not use a completely electronic system yet, this can be abused, there needs ot be equations limiting how much someone can charge for a said product based on a given population geometry, this would certainly slow down the amount of rich people being created and the centralization of wealth into the hands of an tyrannical class of fools who abuse flaws in the current economic system.
Anyways, just thought I'd post this hear to gain some thoughts... don't take any of it to personally, since I'm just sick of how ridiculous and outmoded current economic thinking is, it's totally divorced from science in many regards.
Econophysics: the only reason people are rich is because of population size and the energy resources they control, not primarily because of merit. But there control of the idealogical and psychological superstructures of society and the education system. It took me a long time to figure out why poverty exists: As populations expand, the geometry of a population determines simply by nature of numbers someone will have to get rich (someone will make a widget everyone in the population wants to buy, etc), and not because of simply because of 'hard work' or any such fallacious notions.
the only reason people are rich is because of population size and the energy resources they control, not primarily because of merit. But there control of the idealogical and psychological superstructures of society and the education system.
So what?
Well I guess, based on this, someone was bound to write a post like this, so we should ignore it and move on. No necessary connection between it and any truth. The wonders of determinism.
-Jon
To darkness I condemn you...
Econophysics:Money is actually a kind of energy, it behaves very much like electricity and other enregy systems and should be studied as such.
This doesn't make sense to me. Humans are the ones who determine what money is, how it works and moves, etc (money doesn't 'behave' in a certain way on its own - people use money, giving it the appearance of behavior). So, at the bottom of it one can only study money by studying humans. Studying humans and human action is entirely different than studying electricity.
Econophysics:there needs ot be equations limiting how much someone can charge for a said product based on a given population geometry, this would certainly slow down the amount of rich people being created and the centralization of wealth into the hands of an tyrannical class of fools who abuse flaws in the current economic system.
So you are saying that with the help of an equation one could figure out the 'proper' price of something? Are you also saying there is something inherently wrong with certain people being richer than others?
Econophysics:this would certainly slow down the amount of rich people being created and the centralization of wealth into the hands of an tyrannical class of fools who abuse flaws in the current economic system.
People get rich by removing flaws in the economic system, that is, improving the allocation of scarce resources to satisfy more wants.
If a price is "unfair", why would people pay them? People have tried to answer that question for centuries, the answer is that no mutually agreed upon price is unfair.
Econophysics:Anyways, just thought I'd post this hear to gain some thoughts... don't take any of it to personally, since I'm just sick of how ridiculous and outmoded current economic thinking is, it's totally divorced from science in many regards.
Sorry, its your thinking that is divorced from how people act and interact. Go back to modeling orbits, leave society to the professionals.
This is one of the most incoherent ramblings I have ever read. It obviously came from someone with NO economic knowledge whatsoever, and from someone who is a complete socialist. I loved the comment about the "centralization of wealth". Huh? The top one percent of income earners hold only about 18 percent of total income.
Economics should not be considered a science in the way that the natural sciences are. Economists use mathematics as a way to justify their own short-comings and as a way to get economics recognized as a real "science".
Econophysics: It took me a long time to figure out why poverty exists: As populations expand, the geometry of a population determines simply by nature of numbers someone will have to get rich (someone will make a widget everyone in the population wants to buy, etc), and not because of simply because of 'hard work' or any such fallacious notions.
Poverty has no physical manifestation. It is a purely mental construct, and can only be considered as such in the search for a social organization that can reduce it.
Microsecession as a strategy for revolution | Challenge to minarchist | How would a private road system work?
Econophysics:there needs ot be equations limiting how much someone can charge for a said product based on a given population geometry,
Here is a brand new idea that no one has ever thought of before, ever.
No because money is a part of reality, i.e. paper is made of matter and energy, and so are you, you're thinking in the invidiudalistic mode, the idea tha reality is not interconnected at all times, which is false. We can treat mathematical values as something that stands in place of and represents in mathematical form the earths energy resouces. People are a part of the natural energy system of the planet, so yes money + people behave like energy systems because they are. So yes it behaves like energy because everything is made of it. It's your fallacious notion that things you perceive as seperate but in actuality are not in the ultimate sense.
A little more science, here's einstein for you:
When forced to summarize the general theory of relativity in one sentence: Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter. ... Physical objects are not in space, but these objects are spatially extended. In this way the concept 'empty space' loses its meaning. ... Since the theory of general relativity implies the representation of physical reality by a continuous field, the concept of particles or material points cannot play a fundamental part, ... and can only appear as a limited region in space where the field strength / energy density are particularly high. (Albert Einstein, 1950)
Money behaves as energy because reality is not disconnected from itself, this is why economics is such a deplorable "science" it's based on ignorance. You need to study more physics to gain insight into why money behaves as energy. Money encapsulates the value of property and the natural energy of the planet, and it behaves like energy-access tokens that we pass around to gain material items and property. Don't think it doesn't behave like energy? Interest is a form energy accumulation, all you are doing is accumulating value, in order to accumulate enough energy which allows you to access item x,y, and z.
Not exactly, just that extremes of excess value needs to be siphoned off, money is an imperfect store of value and many of our problems in the political system stem from these flaws of the invention of money itself, ideally we'd have to reinvent money from the ground up and merely study and track how it is used before we go about willy nilly messing in the economy. I'm more for studying transactions in a holistic, all connected manner. Rather then divorced from science as current economics stands. Most of the people in this thread responded unreasonably to my post because they don't possess the humility to even want to understand what I said, in short: The don't have a clue because the do not have enough science background to even begin to understand what I'm saying.
Maybe because the idea is stupid and treats humans as nothing more than atoms behaving in a deterministic fashion on the basis of faulty analogies, by someone who doesn't have enough philosophy background to even know what he is talking about and is another positivist-monist imperialist? Just a thought. Go preach to people easily swayed by equations, not to people who can see through your nonsense.
No because money is a part of reality, i.e. paper is made of matter and energy, and so are you, you're thinking in the invidiudalistic mode, the idea tha reality is not interconnected at all times, which is false.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Words are not reality you stupid idiot, god people here are so uneducated here it's unreal. It's quite obvious none of you have solid backgrounds in the sciences. As expected from the laughable "science" of economics.
"Yes, 'we' think in individualistic mode because we are individuals. Problems arise however when some individuals (you for instance) think in collectivistic mode and fancy they've figured out how imaginary and holistic entities work."
Physics isn't imaginary you idiot, einstein and other physicists have said the same god damn thing. So your beef is with reason and nature itself, god no wonder economics is the dismal science with people like you, you don't even know what you don't know.
I never saw him claiming that. What I did see was you making a whole series of unbacked assertions which so far you've offered no real proof for, other than to argue how uneducated the rest of us are for not passively accepting monist-positivist imperialism. I'm sure you can explain our rejection of it in an equation. Why not go do so, instead of blathering about social constructs?
Man its quite obvious you have no education is physics, and hence why the 'science' of economics is dismal.
Man, it's quite obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about. How about you skip back a few decades, read the monist-positivist arguments on the topic, then read all the refutations of them (including Mises's, Hoppe's, Hollis' and Nell's), then come back and discuss this, ok? Until then, you're wasting our time.
Econophysics: Man its quite obvious you have no education is physics, and hence why the 'science' of economics is dismal.
It's starting to look to me like you just came here to troll. If you don't want to get banned I suggest you behave in a civil manner and provide some actual arguments.
Yours in liberty,Geoffrey Allan Plauché, Ph.D.Adjunct InstructorBuena Vista University
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"(Who watches the watchmen?)-Juvenal, Satires VI.347
Physics isn't imaginary you idiot,
Juan:And so called 'modern' physics is full of imaginary nonsense as well.
Care to elaborate on that, Juan?
Econophysics: Consider so-called intellectual property, binary ones and zero's, lets take the videogame industry, their product because supply is infinite should mean that the industry itself should be entirely unprofitable because, the means of production (actual matter and energy) to duplicate said work is trivial from a cost point of view, and the product itself, once created is not scarce. Applying scarcity economics to things that are not scarce is a form of tyrannical insanity, and the only reason we do, do it, is because our current economic system is really a bio-social political system bent on organizing and classifying people based on what dominant wealthy groups perceive as their interests (wrongly or rightly).
Many Austrians argue against intellectual property on similar grounds. How does this discredit economics as a science?
Money is obsolete? So we don't need a medium of exchange and economic calculation?
Real poverty is due to a lack of productivity, the most common cause of which is that people are forcibly prevented from it by states or other criminal gangs. Some individuals become wealthy because they accurately predict what other people will value and devise a way to produce it efficiently. True, not everyone can do this, but why is it a bad thing that those who do become relatively wealthier than the rest?
Money is not, in and of itself, a mechanism of social control. The state uses it as such by such devices as fiat currencies, but those are not the only forms of money, nor the ones that would survive absent state coercion. The price mechanism cannot be abused. Abuse occurs when criminal organizations such as states prevent the price system from functioning.
The science of economics uses different methodology from that used by the natural sciences. In those, the underlying laws of nature are unknown, and we must discover them through empirical observation and experimentation, essentially trial and error. In economics, the underlying laws of human action are already known, being deducible from self-evident and irrefutable axioms, especially the Action Axiom. To attempt to discover them empirically is redundant at best, and can only introduce needless errors and imprecisions.
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