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Remnant Posted: Wed, Aug 6 2008 12:03 PM

 

If I bought a piece of wilderness that I wanted to keep as a wildlife park, would someone else be able to claim that he has the right to homestead it?

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Parsidius replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 12:26 PM

Has said piece of wilderness been directly grasped, formed, or marked by someone else? (Piece by piece, of course; you cannot brush up against one tree and claim the entire forest, since only that part of the one tree has been in contact with you. Likewise, you cannot just cut down or spray paint one tree and claim the entire wilderness.) If not, then your claim is invalid and others do have a right to homestead it through aforementioned means.

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Stranger replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 12:55 PM

That depends. What have you done that demonstrates that such a good as a wildlife park exists? Are you hunting in it, preserving the wildlife?

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Ahh...the joys of objective theories of appropriation...

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Taylor replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 2:39 PM

If you can 1) define the boundaries of your park by physical homesteading - such as fencing of some sort - and 2) enforce your claim on the wilderness as an economic good (id est you prove that you have actually enjoyed the wilderness as a wildlife park, or gained revenue from the park as such, and registered this information with the property registry service of your choice), I don't see why it shouldn't be recognized as your property.

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Remnant:
If I bought a piece of wilderness that I wanted to keep as a wildlife park, would someone else be able to claim that he has the right to homestead it?

I think the question comes down to: are you actually using it or just trying to keep others from using it? The latter is illegitimate.

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Remnant:

 

If I bought a piece of wilderness that I wanted to keep as a wildlife park, would someone else be able to claim that he has the right to homestead it?

Its not required for you transfrom every aspect of the land in order to be using it.

For example, I build a house in the woods but leave some of the pre-existing trees in my back yard. Even though I did not add labor to each tree specifically they are not pockets of unhomesteaded wilderness within my property. I have homesteaded them by my physical presence there.

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Parsidius replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 10:48 PM

JonBostwick:

Remnant:

 

If I bought a piece of wilderness that I wanted to keep as a wildlife park, would someone else be able to claim that he has the right to homestead it?

Its not required for you transfrom every aspect of the land in order to be using it.

For example, I build a house in the woods but leave some of the pre-existing trees in my back yard. Even though I did not add labor to each tree specifically they are not pockets of unhomesteaded wilderness within my property. I have homesteaded them by my physical presence there.

I don't know, I would think you should mark them or physically grasp the trees first, otherwise there wouldn't really be any limit to what your physical presence can homestead.

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Well or you could consult the common law standards of what has generally been recognized as legitimate homesteading, and use that as a guide.  Ultimately, there are no objective standards here.

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This is a little Offtopic.

Does homesteading apply to animals?  If I mix my labour, say I feed a dog, can I say I homesteaded it?  How would I claim ownership of animals on land I am homesteading?  Are they part and parcel of the land?  What if they are migratory, and are only on my homesteaded land, during the season I homesteaded them?

If this has been covered in any literary or scholarly work, feel free to link me up.  Thanks.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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liberty student:
What if they are migratory, and are only on my homesteaded land, during the season I homesteaded them?

Two ways(atleast) to handle this, treat the herd as a single economic unit owned by 1 person. The other would be to treat them like a river than runs through several people's property.

People can use the river while its on their property, but they can not diminish its quality for the person down stream; they can neither pollute it nor use it dry.

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liberty student:

This is a little Offtopic.

Does homesteading apply to animals?  If I mix my labour, say I feed a dog, can I say I homesteaded it?  How would I claim ownership of animals on land I am homesteading?  Are they part and parcel of the land?  What if they are migratory, and are only on my homesteaded land, during the season I homesteaded them?

If this has been covered in any literary or scholarly work, feel free to link me up.  Thanks.

Yes, homesteading does apply with animals, because you can be the first to use them (Kinsella prefers the term "first-occupancy" versus "mixing of labor," because there are items you can homestead without actually working on, such as picking up a seashell and pocketing it. You did not actually labor on it, but it is still yours by virtue of the fact that you were its first occupant through direct grasping. Likewise, even though you do not actually labor on the dog, if it starts following you around and you feed it and pet it you have first occupancy rights.) As for homesteading animals on your land, you would have to directly grasp, form (such as through killing and cooking them), or mark them to homestead them. If you are the first to mark the migratory animals, they are yours, and could only be killed if they physically invade the property of someone who was there before you (i.e. if you domesticate a bunch of rabbits and they go and eat the crops of a neighbor who was there before you, the neighbor could legitimately kill them. But if you had domesticated the rabbits before anyone else arrives and you make it clear that you have rabbits, then they would have no right to retaliate against the animals.)

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