I read this article that inspired me to write this post.
In a nutshell: The less control we think we have over ourselves, the more we abritrarily cede control to authority. If we cannot do it ourselves we hope, even expect something else to do it for us. Is this why we sit in cubicles doing mindless work we hate? Or is it necessity that causes us to cede control? Does a belief in a benevolent god and strong state have the same root?
my blog
People waste their lives in cubicles because they were conditioned to accept cubicle life as part of their schooling/brainwashing.
People work in cubicles because the State restricts their employment opportunities. It's very hard to start your own business.
(Writing this post from a cubicle.)
I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.
Agreed. Even the much maligned lazy person would be able to more easily get an easy job that would suit him which would pay more than equivalent jobs (ceterus paribus) due to free entry and the rational allocation of resources.
(Writing this from home.)
jmw:Is this why we sit in cubicles doing mindless work we hate? Or is it necessity that causes us to cede control? Does a belief in a benevolent god and strong state have the same root?
This belief may appeal to the same needs. Interestingly the growth and embracing of state power seems to be correlated with the decay of religion and growth of agonsticism/atheism. People seem to want to rely on something that is in control of the things they don't.
earthmoving
The state is easier to appease than consumers are. So people accept the edicts of the state, the devil they kind of know, against the unknown marketplace.
Interestingly the growth and embracing of state power seems to be correlated with the decay of religion and growth of agonsticism/atheism
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
the power of nightmares
"As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable."
Juan: Interestingly the growth and embracing of state power seems to be correlated with the decay of religion and growth of agonsticism/atheism Revealed religion has been quite close or even identical to the most brutal forms of statism. Besides, agnosticism is rather different from atheism.
WARNING: peaceniks stop reading now.
I did find that I was more open to the concept of a 'benevolent deity' during my war profiteering days when my life was in constant peril and I was powerless to do anything about it. The whole 'there is no such thing as an athiest in a foxhole' theory I suppose.
Never really 'found god' but I have been more at peace with the world since then.
I am a lot less likely to cede control these days, I don't really hate my mindless job but I also don't jump through all the hoops they expect me to since I don't really accept that they have 'authority' over me--they simply purchase my labor and pretty much just get what they pay for.
Same with government, they leave me alone and I will follow most of their arbritrary rules but that's mostly since I generally don't act in an 'immoral' manner to begin with so they really have no cause to take issue with my behavior. There are a few exceptions, I haven't shown up for jury duty yet after two summons and haven't filed a tax return for at least six years--doesn't matter anyway since I allegedly owe them a bunch of money so they do it for me and keep my refund. Didn't get my $600 dollar inflationary check though which is somewhat disappointing.
I would doubt that the benevolent god and strong state is related because the god of the Jews 'told' them on multiple occasions of the pitfalls of a State and they did alright without one for a long while until they couldn't resist the temptation to go against the advise of their god and appoint a king. If you believe in that sort of thing that is.
My personal theory on this is that a weak state leads to a strong state because people see others gaming the system and want in on some of that action themselves. They have no problem with the coersive powers they create through this process if the coercion benefits them and when it doesn't then it isn't a problem inherent in the system they built but simply a matter of displacing the group that currently benefits with their group as soon as the first chance arises. The 'small government' Republicans displace the 'big government' Democrats after 25 years in control of both houses of congress and use the systems that the Dems built to benefit their favored groups instead of attacking the coercion and corruption at its heart which was well within their power.
Now the Dems are trying to get 'their man' in charge so they can take back the power and reap the benefits. Seeing no real connection between the abuses commited by the Republicans and the strong State they want to give the state even more power to fix this problem of corruption at the heart of the system.
Who knows, I think I strayed a bit from the original topic.
Anonymous Coward: Same with government, they leave me alone and I will follow most of their arbritrary rules but that's mostly since I generally don't act in an 'immoral' manner to begin with so they really have no cause to take issue with my behavior. There are a few exceptions, I haven't shown up for jury duty yet after two summons and haven't filed a tax return for at least six years--doesn't matter anyway since I allegedly owe them a bunch of money so they do it for me and keep my refund. Didn't get my $600 dollar inflationary check though which is somewhat disappointing.
Isn't there 5% interest a day or something like that? You have some serious balls.
"The plans differ; the planners are all alike"
-Bastiat
Juan:Well, what about looking up the history of the catholic church for starters ?
That's a claim, not even an example let alone does this explain the point you possibly were trying to make
ChaseCola:Isn't there 5% interest a day or something like that? You have some serious balls.
Nah, the penalties and interest work out to be real close to my projected return. The way it is now I figure it will get paid off somewhere near the turn of the next century if they don't just write it off at the seven year deadline or whenever they need to refile the charges.
But that doesn't matter since they can't legally charge interest and penalties because they weren't in full compliance with the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1996 and one of the clauses of that act is that it can be used as a defense in the administrative or court phase. Something like that, I think that's why they leave me alone anyway.
Until they come into full compliance with that act they can't legally compel anyone to file a tax return. Well, if the judicial branch would actually look into it instead of trying to set precedent based on the theory that the IRS claims they are in compliance by printing it on their forms so therefore they are in compliance. But I really don't expect that to happen as they have a serious conflict of interest since they are paid from tax dollars and have a direct financial interest in seeing that they get collected.
That's my theory anyway, the important thing is that they leave me alone.
Torsten: Juan: Well, what about looking up the history of the catholic church for starters ? That's a claim, not even an example let alone does this explain the point you possibly were trying to make
Juan: Well, what about looking up the history of the catholic church for starters ?
Religion and government are two subsets of ideology, which is to say ideas not based on reality but upon the desire of some people to control others. The structural similarities between government and religion, the nature of their propaganda and the fact that they frequently occupied the same or overlapping positions through 99% of human history illustrates this similarity/congruity. Democratism and Statism generally is the new religion. Rockwell and Hoppe accurately describe the tension between Church and State at present as one of ideological competition, but what they fail to acknowledge is that this competition used to be the other way around. In the past religion justified privelege, violence, power and authority. Republicanism viewed a 'rational' organization of government as a way to get what they wanted. They replaced religious with 'constitutional' justifications, and ecclesiasticism and divine right bureacracies with technocratic and demagogic bureacracies.
R.J. Moore II:Religion and government are two subsets of ideology, which is to say ideas not based on reality but upon the desire of some people to control others.
Well, this is the kind of thing that makes perfect sense to a non-believer and looks like utter gibberish to a believer, right?
JAlanKatz: R.J. Moore II:Religion and government are two subsets of ideology, which is to say ideas not based on reality but upon the desire of some people to control others. Well, this is the kind of thing that makes perfect sense to a non-believer and looks like utter gibberish to a believer, right?
Yes, in the same way that a statist will think you are a maniac if you tell him a bunch of petty men made up an imaginary thing called 'government' to get him to enslave himself to them.
R.J. Moore II:Yes, in the same way that a statist will think you are a maniac if you tell him a bunch of petty men made up an imaginary thing called 'government' to get him to enslave himself to them.
Ok, but I tell you that water is imaginary and made up by Walmart, you will probably give me the same look. The point being, it isn't the look that's important, it's whether or not the thing really exists. So, to you, the idea that God is false and that government is made up to exploit people both look obvious, and those doubting either look the same - like control freaks. To me, on the other hand, while it makes perfect sense to say that government was dreampt up to exploit people, telling me that religion exists only to control people looks as crazy as my water-Walmart claim does to you. Just because some claims of that form are true, and yet not believed and considered to be crazy, doesn't prove that all such claims are true, even if they are considered to be crazy.
To me, it is absurd to suggest that the purpose of religion is control, since I believe that my religion was literally revealed by G-d on a mountaintop. Unless you mean G-d's control of humans, which I'm tempted to agree is the purpose, but isn't something I'm opposed to.
JAlanKatz:To me, it is absurd to suggest that the purpose of religion is control, since I believe that my religion was literally revealed by G-d on a mountaintop. Unless you mean G-d's control of humans, which I'm tempted to agree is the purpose, but isn't something I'm opposed to.
You seriously can't see that there is a disconnect between the original christian church (to use your example) and the system that is in place today with the Pope sitting up high with a direct line to G-d on the Red Phone sitting on his desk?
Same with the Jews, Jesus took issue with their form of coercive religion and was killed for it.
Or Mohammad sending his 'flock' out in Mercedes filled with explosives to blow up civilians in direct opposition to his rules of warfare.
Or Martin Luther?
It's a big step from a few people sitting around on rocks in the desert praying to having a class of people with a monopoly on the functioning of a religious society.
Well, since you support your argument with a story you are telling about a character who isn't consistent internally or with reality I can't really argue with you. It only looks crazy because, for some reason, you have accepted a logically impossible story as a historical narrative. What people think is of course important to them, and important in terms of how they will act, but it is not relevant to the truth of an idea. And since we do live in an objective reality where laws of logic apply, neither god nor the state can be made logical sense of. This can be said with certainty. That some people will not accept this is of psychological and historical significance, but not philosophical.
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