Practical Agorism

So being new to this whole Agorism idea, I have a serious question.  Is there some kind of list of agorist businesses?  Like, I need a haircut, where do I go to find a tax-free transaction?

As well as being happy to play the consumer in a tax-free transaction, I also run a business which is about to reach the sales stage.  Is there some kind of code-word or something used to indicate a willingness to make such transactions?  Like "Thanks for visiting NYC Volcano, your agorist-friendly vaporizer purveyor"?

maxpot46:

So being new to this whole Agorism idea, I have a serious question.  Is there some kind of list of agorist businesses?  Like, I need a haircut, where do I go to find a tax-free transaction?

I go to a lot of auctions if I need goods and if I need a haircut I'll find someone that does it out of their house as a part time thing.  To answer your question though I think I remember seeing a thread on here asking what services everyone is willing to offer and where they are located.  The ronpaulforums is going to be putting up a business section for business owners to promote themselves. There's also this:

http://www.libertarianyellowpages.com/

Many of those people accept the liberty dollar or other forms of payment.  I'm sure some don't pay taxes.  This was made by people from ronpaulforums.

As well as being happy to play the consumer in a tax-free transaction, I also run a business which is about to reach the sales stage.  Is there some kind of code-word or something used to indicate a willingness to make such transactions?  Like "Thanks for visiting NYC Volcano, your agorist-friendly vaporizer purveyor"?

Some people put up symbols in their business that an agorist would notice; others just have a sign saying they accept liberty dollars.

Agorism is a new philosophy and has only been around - not to mention neglected - for about thirty years.

Understand that Agorism runs in phases and that the organization of Agorist cells does not come in the first phase.

Right now, you probably view yourself as being in phase 0 - in the Micro terms, as SEK3 would put it. I, personally, feel I'm transitioning into phase 2.

At phase 0, however, nothing more can be done than getting to phase 1, that is, you must put the petty reformists and conservatives behind you and redirect your ideas towards direct action. Once you get here, you'll be in phase 1. In phase 1 you begin to form your own personal allies and you will see a natural organization forming. The organization will form out of other similar, though of course less radical, organizations if you're any good at subterfuge and sabotage. Once you have your allies together, you can begin to talk about trade and developing Agorist projects in your locale.

 

If you're interested though, I am in the process - the slow process - of developing a website that will serve as a publication for Agorist materials and a network for international Agorists to form bonds over that can be relegated down to their own localities. The project is called, The Counter-Economist, and I'm looking to put the site up soon.

 

To answer your questionthough, no, there is no "secret word" that you can use, at least not yet. It seems that you're looking at Agorism from a natural hierarchical perspective. You must understand though, there is not, nor should there ever be, an organization that will hand out orders from the top - at least not until the New Libretarian Alliance morphs into a Revolutionary Agorist Cadre/Congress/etc. Agorism intends to spread naturally through decentralized means empowering individuals to move by themselves. Yes, your comrades will help you glaldy, but not if you don't help yourself first.

 

Niccolò:

It seems that you're looking at Agorism from a natural hierarchical perspective.

No, it's more that I expect a 30-year old movement to have some kind of body of work in terms of inspiring independent organizations to develop and advance said movement.  Since the movement in question is Agorism, I would have expected some kind of functioning counter-economy, maybe some lingo or something.  I didn't realize I was supposed to build my own agorist network.

Anyway, I didn't create this thread to discuss Agorism, I'm looking for a way to facilitate tax-free transactions.

maxpot46:

Niccolò:

It seems that you're looking at Agorism from a natural hierarchical perspective.

No, it's more that I expect a 30-year old movement to have some kind of body of work in terms of inspiring independent organizations to develop and advance said movement.  Since the movement in question is Agorism, I would have expected some kind of functioning counter-economy, maybe some lingo or something.  I didn't realize I was supposed to build my own agorist network.

Anyway, I didn't create this thread to discuss Agorism, I'm looking for a way to facilitate tax-free transactions.

 

Libertarianism didn't wield the same pitiful power it has now when it was first thought of, nor did Socialism. How do you think movements are built? Or were you just expecting all the work to be there for you to feed off of without any dirt on your hands? Sorry, if that's what you expect then move on and quit looking for groups that will help you to facilitate tax-free transactions as no such organization exists - though one is in the very early stages of developing.

 

I'm sorry if this comes off as snobby - I am not meaning to do that in this thread, but if you're really not looking to put in the effort of finding people to trade with, organizing your own local groups, or putting in the time that others are, perhaps you should get out of both business and politics period.

I would suggest you spend more time with your wife and kid. Enjoy your life! Be happy and forget about what you've heard of liberty! Your heart doesn't seem to be in it and I think it will only lead you down a path of unhappiness where you will be completely drained of all hope and love for life.

 

You misunderstand.  I view agorists as a demographic that offers a potential source of tax-free business transactions (which are obviously more profitable to me).  I am a strategist and am seeking information so as to better understand what must be done to acheive my objectives.

And please, come off as snobby as you wish.  I literally don't care at all.  To me, the opinions of a pretentious college student are completely meaningless (except to the extent that they introduce me to more facts).

maxpot46:

No, it's more that I expect a 30-year old movement to have some kind of body of work in terms of inspiring independent organizations to develop and advance said movement.  Since the movement in question is Agorism, I would have expected some kind of functioning counter-economy, maybe some lingo or something.  I didn't realize I was supposed to build my own agorist network.

There is one, many of the stores that accept liberty dollars are using counter economics.  You can google a list of stores that accept them.  If you find some that do go in and ask how they work out the taxes on this stuff... if they give you a bs answer then it's probably safe to say they're doing some things off the books.  You have to talk to them a little to figure it out.

It'd also help if you knew some agorist in real life.

 

 

 

I will explore the liberty dollar angle...  thanks for the tip.

 

maxpot46:

So being new to this whole Agorism idea, I have a serious question.  Is there some kind of list of agorist businesses?  Like, I need a haircut, where do I go to find a tax-free transaction?

As well as being happy to play the consumer in a tax-free transaction, I also run a business which is about to reach the sales stage.  Is there some kind of code-word or something used to indicate a willingness to make such transactions?  Like "Thanks for visiting NYC Volcano, your agorist-friendly vaporizer purveyor"?

It's not a business yet but check out Gil Guillory's research into the viability of a subscription-based patrol and restitution service. We need more private security firms like this as well as private arbitration and mediation services (which are all booming industries, btw).

 

 

What is the website for the liberty dollar?  Anyone actually have any?  

A google search yields this: https://www.libertydollar.org

Just want to make sure this is legit.

maxpot46:

I would have expected some kind of functioning counter-economy, maybe some lingo or something. 

How do you know there's not?  Unless you're already directly involved in a counter-economy network, the most likely way to hear about one is from the news coverage of the arrests and trials. The mob is one, though perhaps not consciously so, and not the most shining example in any case.  The ones your looking for are the same ones you're least likely to have heard about.

maxpot46:

I didn't realize I was supposed to build my own agorist network.

That's the whole point of Agorism, isn't it?

maxpot46:

I'm looking for a way to facilitate tax-free transactions.

The way is to start doing them with whomever will agree to it.  I'm really not sure what else you are looking for. If it's public enough to be just a link away, it's probably not Agorist.  If it's organized, it's probably not Agorist. 

The thing you have to accept when seeking statelessness is that you're on your own, and any help, assistance, or community you may wish to have has to be built or acquired, just like anything else of value. And in today's context, that generally means built, because everyone is starting nearly from scratch, and doing it in relative secrecy.  When that is no longer true, then Agorism will no longer be a movement, it will just be.

 

 

 

ViennaSausage:

What is the website for the liberty dollar?  Anyone actually have any?  

A google search yields this: https://www.libertydollar.org

Just want to make sure this is legit.

 

yup, that's it

 

Wasn't LibertyDollar raided by the feds not long ago? I'm not sure it's safe to do business with them. Or was it another gold currency company that this happened to?

 

ViennaSausage:

What is the website for the liberty dollar?

Just want to make sure this is legit.

 

Depends on your definition of "legit".  The two most common definitions are mutually exclusive.  Those who try to be legit by both definitions simultaneously end up in court with their bullion confiscated and their customers exposed.

If you meant is the URL the legit URL for the well-known Liberty Dollar organization, I think it is, but I can't be sure.  I am sure that it no longer matters. Unless you just want an overpriced piece of silver with Ron Paul's picture on it.

 

 

 

 

histhasthai:

Depends on your definition of "legit".

Legit in the sense it is the correct site.  From my understanding, it looks as though the Liberty Dollar and the eLibertyDollar do not fall under section 486 (depending on who is the judge perhaps).

histhasthai:

Unless you just want an overpriced piece of silver with Ron Paul's picture on it.

So where is the best place to get fairly priced silver or gold?

ViennaSausage:

So where is the best place to get fairly priced silver or gold?

If you want to buy it anonymously, your local coin store - cash only - or someone you know who has some. Coin stores, at least where I live, bid/ask about 80 cents to $1 under/over spot for silver, and maybe $30-$50 for gold.  Slightly higher as a percentage for junk coins. That may be changing, as many shops are finding themselves overwhelmed by demand.

If you don't care about anonymity, the lowest premium way is probably to go directly to the New York or London or Dubai spot market (if they even allow individual buyers, I don't know), or to buy a 100-ounce gold or 5000-ounce silver futures contract on the commodities exchange and take delivery. If that is outside your budget (and it probably is, or you wouldn't need to be asking here), there's plenty of places that sell bullion and junk coins online that have relatively low premiums.  Ebay is another place to sometimes find prices including shipping pretty close to spot (with some higher risk involved).

LD's premiums aren't outrageous, but the RP dollars in particular have a higher premium than generally available for bullion, even at the local coin store.

 

 

What happens to a gold standard once we figure out how to create gold?

Ego:

What happens to a gold standard once we figure out how to create gold?

Then some other commodity would likely emerge as money.

 

ViennaSausage:

So where is the best place to get fairly priced silver or gold?

Blanchard Online usually has good prices for bullion. I bought a few coins from them.

 

For those who are trying to "find" a counter-economic network, I think they will have to be the ones to build a better mousetrap. If you can't find it, it either isn't there or doesn't want to be found.

Some friends and I brew our own beer, and we don't take government money. We advertise by using a libertatis æquilibritas in our price symbol. We vet our customers very carefully - if we don't trust someone, or if they aren't willing to trade, we just "don't have any right now".

It turns out that there was already an agorist community in our area (though neglected and unorganized), who saw our symbol and asked about it - and now we have a market. There are some 30 of us who are aware of each other, spread around the Western half of Pennsylvania. We don't have a self-sustaining counter-economic cell, but it's a necessary first step.

Also, there are some farmers and craftsmen around here who use a backwards dollar sign to indicate their willingness to barter.

What you can do right now besides use subtle hints of your intent is just ask people if they are willing to barter. If they are, great. If they aren't, there probably millions of other people around you. Amongst those who barter there are certain to be a few people who don't trust the state, and every one of those is a potential ally.