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Do you own a gun?

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Mark B. replied on Mon, Apr 28 2008 12:50 PM

Remnant, I strongly suggest that you DON'T try to smuggle in a weapon, in parts or otherwise.  Your chances of success are low and the costs of failure <prison> are prohibitively high.  If you are determined to own a weapon, I would suggest you emigrate to the United States and settle down in Florida or another gun friendly state.

Even if you managed to get the weapon smuggled in, you still have the problem of ammunition, which is extremely detectable even in cargo.

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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DBratton replied on Mon, Apr 28 2008 12:59 PM

Remnant:
I have no gun because it is almost impossible to purchase one legally in the UK.

Out of curiosity, don't some EU countries allow private purchase and ownership of firearms? Do they restrict purchases from citizens of other EU countries?

I would hope Austria would have a reasonable attitude towards handguns. After all, the Glock is the most popular handgun in America and it's made in Austria.

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Mark B. replied on Mon, Apr 28 2008 1:57 PM

DBratton:

It's not exactly blue state vs. red state, but the most restrictive states do tend to be blue. The most liberal gun laws in the US are in Vermont though. Here's a link to map that shows the status of each state. I especially like the little note on the map that says "Tax on right to keep arms: 4 states and Cuba."

 

 

 

Using the Brady Campaign's own charts against them, the most gun friendly states are Oklahoma and Kentucky, each scoring only 2 out of 100 on the Brady Campaign's gun control scorecard.  Essentially 0 would be a gun paradise and 100 would be effectively total gun prohibition.  California is the most restrictive state overall, with a Brady score of 79.  Florida is listed as having 8 points, but they just knocked their score down 2 points by passing the "guns at work" bill, so they have a 6 now.

I won't be satisfied until Florida's Brady score is a perfect 0. :)

If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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MacFall replied on Mon, Apr 28 2008 4:24 PM

I would suggest, to those who would like a pistol for home protection and are unable to obtain one, that you try making one. It should be easy to do without raising too many eyebrows, and frankly I'd feel more comfortable having a gun the existence of which the state is unaware.

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I have one Mosin Nagant, which is a WWII Soviet sniper rifle, and I plan on getting a Glock 19c for concealed carry in a few months from now.

"Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it." -Milton Friedman

"It is a mistake to think businessmen are more immoral than politicians." -John Maynard Keynes

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Magnus replied on Wed, Apr 30 2008 7:33 PM

 This permit to carry a concealed weapon is very interesting, could someone explain the process of obtaining one!? By now I understand that it differs from state to state, but still....

For example, if I have commited crimes in the past, I would assume that it would be impossible to get, yes? Or does it depend on what kind of crime I have commited? And who is responsible for making the decision, the cops or is it some other institution? And aslo, and this might be a silly question what about explosives, like hand grenades? They sure can be concealed, and they sure can be used for protection (see the movie Miami Vice)

 

"Try to imagine a regulation of labor imposed by force that is not a violation of liberty; a transfer of wealth imposed by force that is not a violation of property. If you cannot reconcile these contradictions, then you must conclude that the law cannot organize labor and industry without organizing injustice." — from The Law

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javier replied on Wed, Apr 30 2008 8:03 PM

 Basically it is a long spectrum.  Alaska and Vermont you need no permit to carry as long as you are not a felon. So a weapon charge is an add on charge since since the police must already be talking to you to know if you're a felon.  Alaska, while not needed, does issue permits for the sole reason that one might want to carry a weapon in a state that has a reciprocity agreement.

Then there are "shall issue" states.  Basically if you meet the age requirements and not a felon you get one.

Then there are "may issue" states.  Besides qualifying, you must demonstrate a need for one.  But within the "may issue" states it is also a spectrum.  Some states, like my state of Iowa, pretty much act like a shall issue state where you just take your application to the county sheriff and he turns away nobody that is not a felon or underage.  Then other "may issue" states it is ridiculously hard to get a permit.

No Carry states are only illinois and wisconson (and DC).

Then as I mentioned earlier there are agreements to respect another state's permit.

HERE is an example of my county in iowa's application form

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CShirk replied on Thu, May 1 2008 1:21 PM

Solid_Choke:

I have one Mosin Nagant, which is a WWII Soviet sniper rifle, and I plan on getting a Glock 19c for concealed carry in a few months from now.

 

Don't get a "C" model of anything. They're used for rapid-fire competitions, and that's about all they're useful for. The problem with the "C" models (C meaning "compensated") is that the barrel itself is ported. This allows gas to vent early, reducing the end velocity of the bullet as it exits the muzzle. Since a G19 is only 9mm, you need all the muzzle velocity you can get! 9mm is a pretty wimpy little round, and has a bad tendency not to actually stop a threat. It's kinetic energy is really low compared to other rounds. My advice would be to get a G23 if you want a compact model. The G23 fires a .40 S&W round. The only rounds that Glock chambers for which are more powerful than .40 S&W are .45 ACP and 10mm. However, the G23 uses essentially the same frame size as the G19. So, if the G19 is comfortable for you, the G23 should be as well, with minimal work.

That, though, is just my opinion. Don't take it at face value. Shop around and find out what's comfortable for you, and what you think is sufficient for you. You may want to look around for Concealed Carry Magazine. They have a good guide that tells you the kinetic energies of different bullets and what not. It's definitely worth looking up, whether you agree with what they say or not.

 

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sendin replied on Thu, May 1 2008 2:42 PM

 Yes. Several.  I wish more people had several.  I wish more of the US population had reloading equipment and the skills to reload.  I wish more of the US population had a stock of powder, casings, bullets and primers. I like the deterrent aspects of a well armed population.  I am really glad that I am not a young person although I do have some hope.

Anyway to answer the question, yes, several. And I have a nice big safe for the ones that are not at hand.

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CShirk:

9mm is a pretty wimpy little round, and has a bad tendency not to actually stop a threat. It's kinetic energy is really low compared to other rounds.

If I had known "then" what I know "now", I never would have bought a 9mm. I would have saved up and gotten a nice .45. Although S&W have not repudiated their sell-out to the Clinton whitehouse, their SW1911 is an excellent piece.

Many of the better pistols are available in .40S&W, such as the CZ-75.

This is not to put down wheel guns. One of the most handy and energetic I ever fired, and sadly gave away, was a S&W mod 60, a 5-shot .357Mag. I bought it new with a custom 3" barrel instead of the usual 2", and the balance of the gun was far better that way. It still dropped nicely into a jacket pocket, and the adjustable sights were sweet. "Only" 5 shots, but those 5 _count_.

 

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macsnafu replied on Thu, May 1 2008 10:39 PM

 My stepfather gave me a .22 pistol at one time (back in the 80s!).  I never did anything with it, though.  It just collected dust in the back of my closet.  I gave it away to a friend. 

 

 

 

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Remnant replied on Fri, May 2 2008 7:33 AM

CurtHowland:

CShirk"]

9mm is a pretty wimpy little round, and has a bad tendency not to actually stop a threat. It's kinetic energy is really low compared to other rounds.

 

 

I would like to thank those who commented to my earlier post.  Your points are noted.

Regarding the 9mm, I have often heard it described as a poor caliber, but don't understand why it is so widely used my militaries if this is the case.  Any thoughts?

 

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Remnant:

Regarding the 9mm, I have often heard it described as a poor caliber, but don't understand why it is so widely used my militaries if this is the case.  Any thoughts?


Because governments are inefficient. Decisions are many times made for political, rather than functional, reasons.

That's why the original M-16 was abhored by the soldiers who had to use it.

After the US experience trying to kill Phillipinos with .32 revolvers, the army demanded an effective "defensive side arm" which we know now as the 1911 .45 caliber pistol.

Even today, the "Southern Command" and special forces rifle isn't an M-16 with its itty-bitty bullet, it's a .308 called the SoCom-16. In the 1980s the special forces also demanded that they be allowed to pick their own pistols, and imediately went back to the 1911.

The American use of the 9mm was a political decision, because it was easier to standardize NATO on the 9mm that "everybody else" was using, than try to convince the hoplophobic Europians to arm mere soldiers with the .45.

Keep in mind that the reason the Dumdum ammunition company started making soft-point bullets was because soldiers were complaining that the full-metal-jacket rifle bullets were merely punching little holes in the enemy, rather than killing them the way the old soft Minne-balls would. Oh, but that is so politically incorrect that the "humane" governments all poo-pooed the idea. "That would be barbaric!"

Thus the political overcomes the practical.

But in response to the under-powered round, civilian makers realized they could pack a whole bunch of 9mm rounds into the space of a pistol, so the "wonder 9" was invented with 12 and 15 rounds, and even 30 round magazines which fit into the pistol magazine well. Keep one full in the glove compartment, just in case you have to reload.

"But that's barbaric!" went the politicians, and the 10-round magazine limit was created.

The response? The civilian mass-market 10-round .45 pistol, loaded with high-power soft-point and hollow-point ammunition. Serious punch. They're harder to find since the 10-round magazine ban sunsetted, but I'm sure they're around somewhere.


I love the free market.

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High quality hollowpoint ammunitiion, compared to standard 9mm rounds, significantly improve 9mm performance if I'm not mistaken. The extra firepower in terms of number of rounds can be useful in certain situations. The standard ammo is also cheaper than larger calibers, so it is good for practicing with if you do that a lot, which you should.

 

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CShirk:

Solid_Choke:

I have one Mosin Nagant, which is a WWII Soviet sniper rifle, and I plan on getting a Glock 19c for concealed carry in a few months from now.

 

Don't get a "C" model of anything. They're used for rapid-fire competitions, and that's about all they're useful for. The problem with the "C" models (C meaning "compensated") is that the barrel itself is ported. This allows gas to vent early, reducing the end velocity of the bullet as it exits the muzzle. Since a G19 is only 9mm, you need all the muzzle velocity you can get! 9mm is a pretty wimpy little round, and has a bad tendency not to actually stop a threat. It's kinetic energy is really low compared to other rounds. My advice would be to get a G23 if you want a compact model. The G23 fires a .40 S&W round. The only rounds that Glock chambers for which are more powerful than .40 S&W are .45 ACP and 10mm. However, the G23 uses essentially the same frame size as the G19. So, if the G19 is comfortable for you, the G23 should be as well, with minimal work.

That, though, is just my opinion. Don't take it at face value. Shop around and find out what's comfortable for you, and what you think is sufficient for you. You may want to look around for Concealed Carry Magazine. They have a good guide that tells you the kinetic energies of different bullets and what not. It's definitely worth looking up, whether you agree with what they say or not.

I shoot 9mm better than anything else. I tried the "C" model and I was able to put quick follow up shots are target easier than the standard G19. The reason I like 9mm is because it is the cheapest to shoot via military surplus ammo and has high quality hollow points available that have good track records (aka opfor kills such as Hornady). I'm going to go shoot the G23 before I purchase though. Thanks for the heads up.

 

"Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it." -Milton Friedman

"It is a mistake to think businessmen are more immoral than politicians." -John Maynard Keynes