After reading some post recently it has come to my attention that a number of the posters on these boards are supporters of the 9/11 conspiracy theory. This kind of perplexed me as I though that most Austrians were more supporters of the inept/inefficient view of government as opposed to the omniscient/malevolent view. While I agree that the government has used events in the past to raise support for its wars (i.e. USS Maine, Gulf of Tonkin) I do not believe that these things were premeditated but merely coincidence. In my mind the terrorist had the motive and the ability to carry out these attacks, and the only difference between these hijackings and ones in the past was the intended outcome. I also do not believe that the government is capable of orchestrating a cover up like this based just on the embarrassments this administration has faced in trying to spy on American citizens and being exposed by whistle blowers. While I dislike the government as much as the next guy, I am inclined to resort to Occam's Razor. I am eager to hear your take on the issue.
I'm with you. 9/11 wasn't an inside job--but it WAS a golden opportunity.
--Len.
I also want to point out that conspiracy theories may draw attention away from the real culprit: blowback. Blowback is a documented and logical response to imperialism and has occurred countless times throughout history.
Tbonesw:I also want to point out that conspiracy theories may draw attention away from the real culprit: blowback. Blowback is a documented and logical response to imperialism and has occurred countless times throughout history.
Agreed. The mass media often toss into one pile the people who support conspiracies, and those who argue for a better understanding of blowback, and then spin it so that both look like loonies.
The terrorists had sufficient motive to do what they did. The fact that to this day many people don't understand why they did it (blowback), is a great danger, and leaves much potential for manipulation of public opinion.
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity."
I am one of "those" guys. That is I think that the World Trade Center towers were brought down by controlled demolition. I base much of my thoughts on the matter on the work of Dr. Steven E. Jones. I find that he makes a very strong case for explosives being planted in WTC 1, 2, and 7. I would most certainly be open to reading more attempted refutations of his work. I would change my postition on the matter if such a refutation successfully refuted his thesis and presented a plausable explanation as to why the towers fell without explosives.
One more thing... I stand very much in the minorty among "Austrians" on this issue (as far as I can tell).
I'm not sure if your labels of the "view of government" are valid. Individuals make up a group that call themselves "government." All of these individuals are driven by their own self-interests and act as such. The ineptness and inefficiency that goes along with many government programs has more to do with bureaucrats' motivations. Are they motivated by market forces to serve the public or do they have other interests in mind? Though the government seems to do an "excellent" job when it comes to raping, robbing, and slaughtering people.
After all, Rothbard does mention the New World Order in some of his works. He also maintained that the Kennedy Assassination was a conspiracy. Rothbard and Hoppe have also at times mentioned David Rockefeller and the Trilateral Commission (and the Council on Foreign Relations if I'm not mistaken).
Is it really so mind bogglingly absurd to think such "conspiratorial" happenings, of which they and others mention, may occur?
pazlenchantinrocks:Is it really so mind bogglingly absurd to think such "conspiratorial" happenings, of which they and others mention, may occur?
I certainly don't deny conspiracies in general, and I think that the CFR plays a very important, and detrimental role in American foreign, and possibly domestic policy through their lobby powers. Having said that, in the particular case of 9/11, as much as the government took tremendous advantage of it to strip the rights of Americans, expand government, and start an unnecessary war, this does not hence mean that they conspired to committ 9/11, since as I've said the terrorists had more than sufficient motivation.
I still prefer to go by the maxim "Don't attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity/incompetence".
pazlenchantinrocks:I base much of my thoughts on the matter on the work of Dr. Steven E. Jones.
I have read Jones and seen him present his findings in person. I have to say that Jones' conclusions appear to be very well researched and supported. Based on Jones, I think there is a lot that we are not being told. Whether this amounts to an "inside" job, I cannot say. But, the federal government is certainly trying to keep the bodies buried...for whatever reason. It was either a golden opportunity or a Reichstag. I'm still trying to determine which.
It definantely was NOT an inside job, it is silly and extremely illogical to think so.
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
"The plans differ; the planners are all alike"
-Bastiat
Why worry about conspiracies when all the stuff right out in the open is troublesome enough?
pazlenchantinrocks:I am one of "those" guys. That is I think that the World Trade Center towers were brought down by controlled demolition. I base much of my thoughts on the matter on the work of Dr. Steven E. Jones. I find that he makes a very strong case for explosives being planted in WTC 1, 2, and 7. I would most certainly be open to reading more attempted refutations of his work. I would change my postition on the matter if such a refutation successfully refuted his thesis and presented a plausable explanation as to why the towers fell without explosives.
Do you really believe that our governmnet is capable of deliberately constructing and executing a situation like 9/11. Further, do you really believe they could do it without it ever being leaked? Further, do you really believe George Bush, Cheney, and the like, wouldn't even want to do something like this?
Don't get me wrong, I think Bush and the like are a bunch of morons who have no clue when it comes to understanding what's best for the people, i.e., understanding the beauty of freedom, but at the same time, do you really believe they're so evil as to actually want to knowingly kill people in order to spread their agenda. I know the president has grown the state at a grotesque rate and for that, I regard him as an utterly horrible president. But at the same time, I cannot put him at the same level as men like Hitler and Stalin.
Hitler obviously had no qualms with killing people in order to further his agenda but I doubt the white house is willing to employ the same means. We're simply not at that stage yet. Despite the size of the state it's still rather disaggregated and unorganized thus meaning it is unable to efficiently carry out such intricate things as the conspiracies you speak of.
I believe in conspiracy theories in the sense that I believe there are fundamental underlying directions which society moves in (e.g. the state grows gradually, taking more and more of the people's power) but it is very rare that "deliberate" consipiracy theories hold any truth.
Anyone can find a way to believe in something if they really want to. That's what has happened here. It's human. But seriously, use the logical side of your brain and think about what you're saying.