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Axiomatic Economics

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edward_1313 Posted: Mon, Feb 18 2008 10:42 PM | Locked

So I have repeatedly bumped into Victor Aguilar's "Axiomatic Economics" which he claims completely overthrows Austrian Economics.  I've read some of it and, to be honest, his jargon and method of exposition make it terribly difficult to comprehend and further, it's utterly dry.  I was just wondering if anyone has made complete sense of it as I have not the patience for his incredibly boring writing style.  I'm no slouch in mathematics either as I'm currently taking graduate level mathematics courses.  I know Murphy wrote a rebuttal and Garrison's rebuttal is soon to come out.  Aguilar claims he made mince meat of Murphy's criticism.  His style, by the way, is overly arrogant and always seems to dance around everything rather then go right at.

Just looking for thoughts and interpretations of it, the background on Aguilar, etc.  

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Inquisitor replied on Mon, Feb 18 2008 10:58 PM | Locked

 He sounds like an obsessive crank. Ask someone who has patience with them.

 

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John Stabbyman replied on Mon, Feb 18 2008 11:43 PM | Locked
I tried reading his critique a while back and it did my head in. Maybe he is the Copernicus of economics (as he claims) but I'll never know it. At least not until he finds a Hansen to translate his ideas into a more digestible form. It will be interesting to see Garrison's response. I thought it was odd that he refers to Skousen's The Structure of Production as the last great Austrian treatise, and he says that Ron Paul is the current leader of the Austrian School.
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edward_1313 replied on Mon, Feb 18 2008 11:58 PM | Locked

He's clearly not a liberterarian as he makes it clear a number of times that he thinks government intervention is most obviously required and necessary for the welfare of people.  These sort of comments make me far more dubious of his work.  He clearly lacks an understanding of the free market.

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averros replied on Tue, Feb 19 2008 12:49 AM | Locked

 I am a mathematican, so the dry notation doesn't faze me.  Well, I tried to parse the "Axiomatic Economics" and it simply does not make much sense.

 Impenetrable jargon is usually a sign of obscurantism;  I have yet to see anyone saying aything worthwhile who'd engage in this kind of writing.  The complexity tends to get better of the author's own wits, rendering the whole formal argument rather useless.

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TomG replied on Tue, Feb 19 2008 4:03 AM | Locked

if he's claiming axioms, then he ought to have listed them - and then the fundamental assumptions of his grand paradigm are exposed (and from the sounds of it, they're likely nothing more than the antithesis of Austrian reality).  The rest is fluff to justify a faulty foundation - since the truth is derived at with simple, concise arguments. 

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Fried Egg replied on Tue, Feb 19 2008 7:35 AM | Locked

For reference, here is Victor Aguilar's critique of  Austrian Economics:

http://www.axiomaticeconomics.com/critiques.php

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Victor Aguilar replied on Tue, Aug 5 2008 2:45 PM | Locked

edward_1313:

He's clearly not a liberterarian as he makes it clear a number of times that he thinks government intervention is most obviously required and necessary for the welfare of people.  These sort of comments make me far more dubious of his work.  He clearly lacks an understanding of the free market.

 

$100 says that you're a liar.  Provide a quote of me supporting government intervention and I'll pay you.  Otherwise, stop telling lies about me.

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Shaka replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 3:03 PM | Locked

TomG:

if he's claiming axioms, then he ought to have listed them - and then the fundamental assumptions of his grand paradigm are exposed (and from the sounds of it, they're likely nothing more than the antithesis of Austrian reality).  The rest is fluff to justify a faulty foundation - since the truth is derived at with simple, concise arguments. 

 

Congratulations, TomG, you’re famous!  Aguilar cited you at www.axiomaticeconomics.com/perfected_economy.php

 

Ha!  Ha!  But on a serious note, while it’s great sport to poke fun at children like TomG, let us remember that they are just that:  Children.  The real issue is:  Where are the professors?

 

If Roger Garrison were a leader, he wouldn’t leave these misguided children alone to flail at Aguilar in such an ineffective and obviously leaderless fashion.

 

Instead of cursing at Aguilar (or making up lies about him, as edward_1313 did), why don’t you guys wipe your noses and compose some nice, polite e-mails to Roger Garrison asking him to please – pretty please, with sugar on top – rebut Aguilar’s Critique of Austrian Economics.

 

Roger Garrison’s e-mail address is garriro@auburn.edu

 

How’s that for a strategy?

 

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liberty student replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 3:24 PM | Locked

Shaka:
How’s that for a strategy?

Trolling is not a strategy.

 

 

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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mtew replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 3:43 PM | Locked

Victor Aguilar:

$100 says that you're a liar.  Provide a quote of me supporting government intervention and I'll pay you.  Otherwise, stop telling lies about me.

 

I found the following under Part I Section VIII of "Critique of Austrian Economics"

"In light of the recent scandals, we should point out that there is no invisible hand that prevents dishonest businessmen from cooking their books.  For that we need government regulators.  And we needed regulations like the Glass-Steagall Act, which prevented conflicts of interest."

 

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Victor Aguilar replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:00 PM | Locked

Dishonest businessmen cooking their books is criminal in the same way (though with less violence) as robbers holding up convenience stores.  Do you also consider it "government intervention" when the police respond to a liquor store heist?

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Geoffrey Allan Plauche replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:11 PM | Locked

Victor Aguilar:
Dishonest businessmen cooking their books is criminal in the same way (though with less violence) as robbers holding up convenience stores.  Do you also consider it "government intervention" when the police respond to a liquor store heist?

Trying to weasel out of your bet? Pay up Victor. Both are examples of government intervention. You didn't specify any particular kind.

P.S. The state is illegitimate. I'd rather have private service providers handling both sorts of cases. And the Glass-Steagall Act isn't libertarian even by minarchist standards.

Yours in liberty,
Geoffrey Allan Plauché, Ph.D.
Adjunct Instructor
Buena Vista University

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
(Who watches the watchmen?)
-Juvenal, Satires VI.347

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scineram replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:26 PM | Locked

Geoffrey Allan Plauche:
The state is illegitimate. I'd rather have private service providers handling both sorts of cases.

That is not the issue.

 

Who is the victim of cooking?

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Geoffrey Allan Plauche replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:30 PM | Locked

scineram:

Geoffrey Allan Plauche:
The state is illegitimate. I'd rather have private service providers handling both sorts of cases.

That is not the issue.

Who is the victim of cooking?

The point is both are government interventions, even if you think one or both are legitimate interventions. Victor lost the bet.

Yours in liberty,
Geoffrey Allan Plauché, Ph.D.
Adjunct Instructor
Buena Vista University

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
(Who watches the watchmen?)
-Juvenal, Satires VI.347

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Jon Irenicus replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:31 PM | Locked

Could this be, a serious "economist" posing as a fanboy of his? Surprise

-Jon

To darkness I condemn you...

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Geoffrey Allan Plauche replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:32 PM | Locked

Shaka:

TomG:

if he's claiming axioms, then he ought to have listed them - and then the fundamental assumptions of his grand paradigm are exposed (and from the sounds of it, they're likely nothing more than the antithesis of Austrian reality).  The rest is fluff to justify a faulty foundation - since the truth is derived at with simple, concise arguments. 

 

Congratulations, TomG, you’re famous!  Aguilar cited you at www.axiomaticeconomics.com/perfected_economy.php

 

Ha!  Ha!  But on a serious note, while it’s great sport to poke fun at children like TomG, let us remember that they are just that:  Children.  The real issue is:  Where are the professors?

 

If Roger Garrison were a leader, he wouldn’t leave these misguided children alone to flail at Aguilar in such an ineffective and obviously leaderless fashion.

 

Instead of cursing at Aguilar (or making up lies about him, as edward_1313 did), why don’t you guys wipe your noses and compose some nice, polite e-mails to Roger Garrison asking him to please – pretty please, with sugar on top – rebut Aguilar’s Critique of Austrian Economics.

 

Roger Garrison’s e-mail address is garriro@auburn.edu

 

How’s that for a strategy?

 

Hi Victor. Do you often troll forums with sock puppets?

P.S. Your IP address gave you away.

 

Yours in liberty,
Geoffrey Allan Plauché, Ph.D.
Adjunct Instructor
Buena Vista University

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
(Who watches the watchmen?)
-Juvenal, Satires VI.347

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Victor Aguilar replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:34 PM | Locked

The shareholders are the victims when a company cooks their books.  They were deceived into buying the company's stock after reading about non-existent profits.

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liberty student replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:37 PM | Locked

Geoffrey Allan Plauche:
Hi Victor. Do you often troll forums with sock puppets?

P.S. Your IP address gave you away.

Ha! I knew it, even without the IP address!

Nice GAP!

 

Where are the professors?

 

Where are the professors indeed!

 

 

 

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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PeterWellington replied on Wed, Aug 6 2008 5:42 PM | Locked

Victor, pay up!

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