Do either utilitarians or natural rights libertarians have any justification for public education (through the voucher system, of course)? If so, then why. It seems to me that public education is simply another socialist mechanism.
In a utopian libertarian world, there would be no mandated taxes, hence one would be able to spend the money on anything they wish, including private education. The voucher system is used to recoup mandated taxes that would have gone to "public" education so one would be able to use it for "private" education.
IMHO, the decision making of school choice, not to mention the choice of whether to go to school or not ought to reside as close to the individual as possible. The further away from the indivdual the decision making happens, aka Washington bureaucrats, the further away the individual exists from freedom.
I don't like any sort of mandatory tax. But if I had to choose I would rather have a school voucher system where the money is attached to the student and is allowed to attend any school within however far they want to drive. That's how they do it in parts of Europe and the schools where this is done out perform the ones that don't.
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miksirhc:Do either utilitarians or natural rights libertarians have any justification for public education (through the voucher system, of course)? If so, then why. It seems to me that public education is simply another socialist mechanism.
Public education is just another mechanism of socialism and state control. Essentially you are taking from me (who has no children) and giving my money to someone else so that their kids can go to school. You've accomplished two things: 1) you decreased my standard of living (one goal of socialism) and 2) you've created built in mindless sheeple through your government taught revisionist history classes and shown impressionable youngsters that government must take care of you. Mommy and daddy can't afford to send you to a private school but the government, or god as they see it, can get you educated. Now you're ready for publically financed health care, car insurance, housing, etc.
There is no justification for public education, voucher or not. A free market private educational system is the only real option. A voucher system is better than what we have in that it does provide some "choice" but it isn't much better.
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds. " -- Samuel Adams.
I don't see any justification for it in the long term, but as a transitional tool to a total free market education system a voucher system would work.
I am a believer in gradualism and transitions, not because I don't think the market can deal with a sudden change (I do), but because I'm worried that if the immediate effects seem negative to the public, they'll panic and advocate socialist measures to fix them. Many people aren't intelligent enough to realise that such government action is counter-productive.
britainland:I don't see any justification for it in the long term, but as a transitional tool to a total free market education system a voucher system would work.I am a believer in gradualism and transitions, not because I don't think the market can deal with a sudden change (I do), but because I'm worried that if the immediate effects seem negative to the public, they'll panic and advocate socialist measures to fix them. Many people aren't intelligent enough to realise that such government action is counter-productive.
I agree with you. That is how this country has become a socialist nation. The Fabian socialist took their time and slowly introduced all of these social programs. Now people don't even recognize that it is socialism! I work with a guy that really believes that SCHIPS isn't socialized health insurance because his son pays $50 a month for it! Never mind the fact that taxpayers pay billions of dollars every year to support it!
I'd still like to see an Austrian revolution and overturn all of these socialsit principles over night.
kingmonkey:I'd still like to see an Austrian revolution and overturn all of these socialsit principles over night.
But whats sad is they've run us so deep into debt it's like the pt. of no return. No one is willing to sober up and face reality. I'm afraid we're in the throes of a black hole.
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 14 Feb 2008 at 03:54:38 AM GMT is:
The National Debt has continued to increase an average of$1.49 billion per day since September 29, 2006!
If we pay the debt, basically all our income would be going to the govt. We gotta reduce/end entitlement programs and cut discretionary spending BIG time! Could you imagine a politician asking people to do without their pig tit dependency but ALSO continue to pay taxes at todays current rate? "Oh, by the way, we're going to cut government spending by 75%, but your taxes will remain the same."
Wide-open free trade could do wonders to free our tax burden, but protectionists are gonna swallow that. It looks like it going to have to be bloody, ultimately. [:'(] I've tried to think of ways to pay the debt, but it doesnt matter how much you send to Washington, the bleeding will continue. If you give them more they'll simply want more and the debt will continue.
I think a total collapse of the economic system in this country could do wonders for our cause if we were able to capitalize on it. Of course, I don't think it will happen. There are too few of us and too many of them in control. That's one of the reasons I like Ron Paul, even if he isn't the perfect Austrian candidate, he is still getting the message out there that freedom is better than government control and the market can do things better than anything the state can offer. If we just had a few more Ron Paul-like people come to prominence then we'd be able to set things up for a complete overhaul.
pairunoyd:If we pay the debt, basically all our income would be going to the govt. We gotta reduce/end entitlement programs and cut discretionary spending BIG time! Could you imagine a politician asking people to do without their pig tit dependency but ALSO continue to pay taxes at todays current rate? "Oh, by the way, we're going to cut government spending by 75%, but your taxes will remain the same."
Why pay the debt? Murray Rothbard made what I consider to be a good case for repudiating the national debt. Sure, it would screw up the government's credit, but that would only make it harder for the government to get away with deficit spending.
Matthew Graybosch:Why pay the debt? Murray Rothbard made what I consider to be a good case for repudiating the national debt. Sure, it would screw up the government's credit, but that would only make it harder for the government to get away with deficit spending.
Along those same lines, that's why Bono's ballyhooed "debt relief" for African nations is so bogus: if African nations have to implement confiscatory taxation to pay government debt, then they should just stop paying. A Mises' scholar made the same argument when Argentina had its currency crisis.
Public debt is really immoral on a number of levels.
The State has suddenly and quietly gone mad. It is talking nonsense; and it can’t stop. —G.K. Chesterton
If one is a minarchist, and believes that the purpose of government is to protect rights, that means military, police, and courts, and very little else. Public education is allegedly about providing education, not about providing rights. If one is an anarchist, then there's no government to even offer public education.
One might try to redefine "public education" by having an educational co-op or a charitably-funded school system, but since it would be voluntary, it would be nothing like our current public educational system.
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