Please, grow up.
To darkness I condemn you...
Democracy for Breakfast:Your everyday person will not be up to such a task if finding a job is not easy.
No, they won't. Because they have been domesticated. Like a declawed house cat.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
Me? Sorry I just got irritated. I apologize for language. Just trying to illustrate the absurdity
"...The post-totalitarian system contrives to force life into its most probable states...This system serves people only to the extent necessary to ensure that people will serve it
Vaclav Havel
Saan: Me? Sorry I just got irritated. I apologize for language. Just trying to illustrate the absurdity
no, not you. click on the "replied on" link beside any name, in this case Jon's, to find out which post a person responded to.
"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe
I knew that. I've had a beer. Going to bed soon before the alcohol takes over. Thanks wilderness.
The OP.
Saan: Southern:but you can always join the military. You can always rob the local 7-11 too. Join up today kids, kill some some sand niggers and get free ride to college. Come on really, here.
Southern:but you can always join the military.
You can always rob the local 7-11 too. Join up today kids, kill some some sand niggers and get free ride to college. Come on really, here.
Already went through this with liberty student and some others. I appologize for offending anyone, but in a world where we all use the state and all it provides through taxes it is an option. And ttour statement is not neccesarially accurate and in most cases unfair. The most anyone can say is that those who serve in the military are more immoral than most here, but none of us are saints and we all in violation in one way or another of libertarian ideals. Again I appologize I did not think that my post was inappropriate.
Well, working for free is better then not working at all.
I recently had success in this, I just found the job I wanted in the industry I liked.... I e-mailed the owner of a business with my resume and a thought out cover letter and made it clear that I was willing to work for free. Once I had made the offer they couldn't refuse I worked above and beyond and created enough work for myself that they realised if I left a lot of things that are running smoothly would turn chaotic or stop completley. The idea is to infiltrate and then get so involved that you become difficult to replace with any haste. So, after 1-2 months of free labour I was hired into a full-time paid position.
It may suck not making income to pay the bills, but your not helping yourself by sitting around, you can continue to job hunt while building real world expierence.
Southern: The most anyone can say is that those who serve in the military are more immoral than most her...,
The most anyone can say is that those who serve in the military are more immoral than most her...,
The most anyone can say... say? say? say? wtf?
i give this post a for utter failure to realize reality. unless training to kill somebody you never had a quarrel with cause some guy with stars or so-called commander in chief dictated you too and that's ones cup of spiked tea... please.
In Houston(One of the cheapest places to live) they are hiring american petroleum engineer's right out of college. To start they are offering between 65-75k a year. They are having to import foreigners as there is not enough domestic engineers available.
Look at the market and see what is it demand. If you find something that looks interesting peruse it. Engineering in general in the US is still in high Demand. Amidst the crappy recession IT un-employment was something like <4%.
Despite what society tells you there is no such thing as that one perfect dream job that you are destined by fate and the alignment of the planets. Instead you likely have a skillset that is applicable across many sectors/industries/ and career paths. Expand on your skillset and you may find that you can apply it to several areas. GL!
Statism is a religion.
wilderness: Southern: The most anyone can say is that those who serve in the military are more immoral than most her..., The most anyone can say... say? say? say? wtf? i give this post a for utter failure to realize reality. unless training to kill somebody you never had a quarrel with cause some guy with stars or so-called commander in chief dictated you too and that's ones cup of spiked tea... please.
Easy now. Once again the military is being painted with one brush. That does not reflect reality. Like I said before there are jobs and branches where you are not turned into trained killers.
So I can understand the distinction between volunteering your support for the military and supporting the military through taxes (<--involuntary). But paying to kill someone (even against your will) and being paid to kill someone are just shades of gray. But how many of us have actively resisted paying the government. Again another shade of gray. You can pay all the lip service you want to ideals but we would rather live and pay the killers than be killed yourself. So, im not saying i dissagree with the ideal but I think we need to be honest about our place in the scheme of things.
Southern:Easy now. Once again the military is being painted with one brush. That does not reflect reality. Like I said before there are jobs and branches where you are not turned into trained killers.
But their primary roles are to support the trained killers. Seems to me a distinction without meaningful difference...
============================
David Z
"The issue is always the same, the government or the market. There is no third solution."
David Z: Southern:Easy now. Once again the military is being painted with one brush. That does not reflect reality. Like I said before there are jobs and branches where you are not turned into trained killers. But their primary roles are to support the trained killers. Seems to me a distinction without meaningful difference...
Very true and our primary role is the pay for it all.
and yet I involuntarily do such and military personal and you are advocating it is ok - join - volunteer. big difference. no shade of gray that's merely your excuse. even support personal go through boot camp cause they are ALL soldiers given preparation to initiate physical aggression. that's a non-argument. i know of some military personal that have gotten out of the military and realized what they had gravely done. i say better late than never.
my great grandfather was in WW1 and being Italian fought in North Africa. he came back and told his family and this has been passed down to us with specific actions taken by each generation since then heeding his words, "Do not ever go to war. It is terrible."
WW1 was the 'War to End All Wars' - right? The so-called 'Great War'. A huge terrible war of magnified disaster. When will people learn from those that have been in war.
If your going to take taxpayer money join Peace Corps instead. You get:
wilderness: my great grandfather was in WW1 and being Italian fought in North Africa. he came back and told his family and this has been passed down to us with specific actions taken by each generation since then heeding his words, "Do not ever go to war. It is terrible." WW1 was the 'War to End All Wars' - right? The so-called 'Great War'. A huge terrible war of magnified disaster. When will people learn from those that have been in war.
I have not glorified war or justified the war we are in. My point was that we are all part of the system and in one way or another, just as guilty as the one who pulls the trigger. Then good point was made about the distinction between being an volunteer soldier and an involuntary tax payer. However, we all make the choice to pay and continue to live the good life while another pays in our stead. We make the choice to trade someone elses life for our freedom. Only those who refuse to make that choice can take the moral high ground, but I cant and most here cant either. The chain of responsibility does not stop just because you declare that the choices given to you are harm someone else or be harmed yourself. That is why I say we are all just as guilty of murder if all military are guilty. I am not trying to point the finger at everyone and declare hypocracy but I do ask that you be a little more moderate about denouncing others. I see the world as shades of grey, if you dont then we wont see eye to eye.
Southern:My point was that we are all part of the system and in one way or another, just as guilty as the one who pulls the trigger.
No, we're not. Because I would never pull the trigger. I draw the line at subjecting myself to citizenship. I do not support war, I do not vote for war, and I will never go to war if drafted. I will never drop a bomb on someone, or load a bomb onto a plane, nor service a plane that delivers bombs.
You might not see the difference but I do. There is a point where the state goes too far. I can handle its immorality against me to a certain point. But I will not allow it to use me to inflict aggression on others.
If soldiers laid down their arms tomorrow, the state could not fight wars. But because they willingly participate, the state can continue with its violence.
The state doesn't go to war because I pay taxes any more than a PDA would go to war because I pay a subscription fee. It goes to war because there are people willing to kill for money and people willing to apologize for it.
Southern: My point was that we are all part of the system and in one way or another, just as guilty as the one who pulls the trigger.
My point was that we are all part of the system and in one way or another, just as guilty as the one who pulls the trigger.
and yet lots of people don't pull the trigger and don't want to. meanwhile some people do and you are advocating that they should volunteer to do it as opposed to NOT volunteer.
Southern: Then good point was made about the distinction between being an volunteer soldier and an involuntary tax payer. However, we all make the choice to pay and continue to live the good life while another pays in our stead.
Then good point was made about the distinction between being an volunteer soldier and an involuntary tax payer. However, we all make the choice to pay and continue to live the good life while another pays in our stead.
I don't think you understand what volunteer and not-volunteer means.
Southern: We make the choice to trade someone elses life for our freedom.
We make the choice to trade someone elses life for our freedom.
that's not true.
Southern: Only those who refuse to make that choice can take the moral high ground, but I cant and most here cant either.
Only those who refuse to make that choice can take the moral high ground, but I cant and most here cant either.
and then you take the next step and advocate that a person ought to volunteer in order to be dictated to pull the trigger on who knows, some stranger somewhere I venture?
Southern: The chain of responsibility does not stop just because you declare that the choices given to you are harm someone else or be harmed yourself.
The chain of responsibility does not stop just because you declare that the choices given to you are harm someone else or be harmed yourself.
I never encountered that choice. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Southern: That is why I say we are all just as guilty of murder if all military are guilty.
That is why I say we are all just as guilty of murder if all military are guilty.
that's impossible human action. for when I don't pull the trigger and advocate not pulling the trigger - you say I pull the trigger. whatever dude. i know when it's time to move on. A is not-A. illogical. To trivialize the quality between one thing and another is deceptive to say the least.
Southern: I am not trying to point the finger at everyone and declare hypocracy but I do ask that you be a little more moderate about denouncing others. I see the world as shades of grey, if you dont then we wont see eye to eye.
I am not trying to point the finger at everyone and declare hypocracy but I do ask that you be a little more moderate about denouncing others. I see the world as shades of grey, if you dont then we wont see eye to eye.
and yet you finish this post that is it possible that "we won't see eye to eye"... which it is? we are the same eye or we are not.
I humbly bow out of this dialogue. I don't think this necessarily deliberates a continuance.
good day sir
liberty student:I would never pull the trigger. I draw the line at subjecting myself to citizenship. I do not support war, I do not vote for war, and I will never go to war if drafted. I will never drop a bomb on someone, or load a bomb onto a plane, nor service a plane that delivers bombs.
Lol, awesome we found something in common. Btw what about the airman who unclogs the toilet used by the pilot who drops the bombs.
(Just trying to lighten the mood a little)
liberty student:You might not see the difference but I do. There is a point where the state goes too far. I can handle its immorality against me to a certain point. But I will not allow it to use me to inflict aggression on others.
I do see the diffrence and have even admitted that you can accuse some who do the systems dirty work to be more responsible for the states sins; others less. But I dont see how you can say the state uses you and I for non aggressive things but not for aggressive things. The state uses us for all things. Your labor, my labor, everyones labor is the life blood of the state. Without it the state is incapable of doing anything. It seems like you have said it is okay if the state takes money from you and pays other people to do immoral things but you draw the line when they try to force you to do something immoral directly. I hope that I would have the guts to do the same, but both seem immoral to me. Granted, one worse than the other but both complicit none the less.
liberty student:The state doesn't go to war because I pay taxes any more than a PDA would go to war because I pay a subscription fee. It goes to war because there are people willing to kill for money and people willing to apologize for it.
I think the opposite would be true. War is impossible without money. Unless we create the "new libertarian man" there will always be those who are willing to kill for money.
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