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The factor of "learned helplessness" in poverty

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Democracy for Breakfast posted on Sun, Oct 18 2009 5:22 PM

Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions? The latter may eventually look to crime, drugs, and gang violence as salvation to their lives and end up adding to a social cespool.

So in a free society, how would everyone not develop a learned helplessness? They are some people who work hard to improve their lives, but not everyone is under that criteria.

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Democracy for Breakfast:

Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness"...

But isnt that exactly what the welfare state does?  Instead of being punished for their poor decisions, they are rewarded with welfare, child support, etc.

So in a free society, how would everyone not develop a learned helplessness?

By suffering the consequences of their decisions.

Semper Fidelis

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Democracy for Breakfast:
Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions?

With Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions?

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sicsempertyrannis:

Democracy for Breakfast:

Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness"...

But isnt that exactly what the welfare state does?  Instead of being punished for their poor decisions, they are rewarded with welfare, child support, etc.

So in a free society, how would everyone not develop a learned helplessness?

By suffering the consequences of their decisions.

 

Because people naturally make bad investments. When some people are punished for their decisions, they become upset and then lose confidence.

 

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Democracy for Breakfast:

Because people naturally make bad investments. When some people are punished for their decisions, they become upset and then lose confidence.

Oh well.   A free society isnt going to play baby sitter for every fuck up; they either work or starve.

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when it gets cold, i go down into the basement and outside to get wood to fill up the woodburner connected to all the vents in the house.  when i see the stack of sticks and axed wood shrink i think how i don't want to feel cold this winter and need to replenish the pile.  and these cold mornings have been big motivators and once i feel any cold creep in it doesn't take me long to get up and throw in some more wood.

and as for those "...not... under that criteria." what is somebody to do?  initiate coercion so they work?  nah, obviously not.  and why worry about other people anyways?  i wouldn't stop myself from continuing to help others and if somebody knocked at my door for a sandwich I'd give the person one and probably a loaf of bread and find out their story so I might be able to help them so they don't need to do this, if they don't want to of course.  and if they're a monk with a bowl, hmmm, i'd have to think about that one or somebody cruisin' the countryside for spiritual enlightenment maybe they have a story or two to share for their meal. 

chop wood, dig a garden

 

"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe

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Marko replied on Sun, Oct 18 2009 5:50 PM

Democracy for Breakfast:

Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions? The latter may eventually look to crime, drugs, and gang violence as salvation to their lives and end up adding to a social cespool.

So in a free society, how would everyone not develop a learned helplessness? They are some people who work hard to improve their lives, but not everyone is under that criteria.



I think you should cease with the utalitarian value judgements. Maybe "learned helplessness" is not something to be cured. (Whatever the hell it is anyways.) Mayhap it is something to be celebrated. Maybe this "learned helplessness" is the height of human experience. Drugs and violence between willing participants you say? Sure sounds like a lot of fun.

A free society does not mean you get to see your every social engineering fantasy come to life through natural forces. Maybe it will mean you will just have to plug your nose amidst a large "cespool" of the "learned helpless". Or worse it might mean that you will have to plug your nose amidst an ever growing cespool of evolutionist societies and golf courses.

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Democracy for Breakfast:

Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions? The latter may eventually look to crime, drugs, and gang violence as salvation to their lives and end up adding to a social cespool.

So in a free society, how would everyone not develop a learned helplessness? They are some people who work hard to improve their lives, but not everyone is under that criteria.

http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/woods2/15.mp3

He shows that on the contrary, Welfare increases learned helplessness, breaks up families [which increases crime etc].

As for drugs, so many problems would be reduced drastically if drugs were legalized, exactly like when alchohol was finally legalized.

 

 

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Democracy for Breakfast:
Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions?

Talk about beggging the question!

How does welfare "stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions"?

Peace
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Democracy for Breakfast:
The latter may eventually look to crime, drugs, and gang violence as salvation to their lives and end up adding to a social cespool.

 

Drugs are perfectly okay in a free society so that person is just entering another line of work. As for the gang/crime problem there would be more employment options in a free society than in an unfree one so turning to violence is unlikely -under capitalism people have too much of a monetary value to just be left by the wayside. 

Learned helplessness is actually what people call "learning by experience" and it affects everyone. For anyone who fails at something that person eventually decides to put his effort elsewhere where it is most efficiently used. 

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Democracy for Breakfast:
Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness" that traps them in their own psychological bubble that reinforces bad investments and decisions?

This is so conceited, it sounds like something Ellsworth Toohey would write for the Wynand Banner.

Democracy for Breakfast:
So in a free society, how would everyone not develop a learned helplessness?

How could they learn helplessness without welfare?

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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Democracy for Breakfast:

When some people are punished for their decisions, they become upset and then lose confidence.

So how would rewarding them for their bad decisions inspire them?

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

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filc replied on Mon, Oct 19 2009 12:01 AM

Democracy for Breakfast:

sicsempertyrannis:

Democracy for Breakfast:

Without Welfare, how do you stop working poor and lower class citizens from developing a "learned helplessness"...

But isnt that exactly what the welfare state does?  Instead of being punished for their poor decisions, they are rewarded with welfare, child support, etc.

So in a free society, how would everyone not develop a learned helplessness?

By suffering the consequences of their decisions.

 

Because people naturally make bad investments. When some people are punished for their decisions, they become upset and then lose confidence.

 

In a free society the economic environment is going to be entirely different. For starters I believe your more likely to see families working together and also far more likely for people to manage their own insurance by means of savings. Only the irresponsible will be in such a situation. 


The fact that you would make such a statement leads me to believe that you yourself have not adequately prepared your savings to cover your losses on future disasters. Perhaps you are cashing in on that welfare? That is of coarse extremely presumptuous of me but most people who earn their way and manage their own insurance/savings generally look down at people who do not and use compulsion to steal savings from others to survive.

 

Sidenote

We wouldn't need government welfare at all if people saved again. Welfare is a symptom of a loose monetary policy. The policy encourages spending and not savings. If we had a stable dollar it's more likely that people would manage their own welfare. This is ofcoarse another reason to end institutes like the fed. In our society consuming and spending money on garbage is considered a "need" to bolster the economy and build self esteem. We teach people that they "Need" to buy crap on themselves on occasion so that they feel good. As a result you have an extremely large percentage of the population who not only has savings, but when they do think they are operating in error. 

Statism is a religion.

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Something for charities to work out, not me.

To darkness I condemn you...

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