Yeah I understand what you mean in that sense, but what I'm referring to is how it being used now. How ironic. I have to write a short essay on Iran now.
"Anxiety is the dizziness of freedom." Soren Kierkegaard
liberty student:Ever heard about the CIA sponsored death squads in south and central America?
CIA was founded by the Nazi sympathizers using Nazi spies and war criminals (they even hid Eichmann).
If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.
J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
Iran aggresses - not on a scale that the US does but that doesn't make it all of a sudden OK.
Sure, sympathize with the Iranian people all you want. It's just tiring to see libertarians turn into semi-Iranian apologists because they are 'anti-USA'.
Can't be an apologist if I'm Iranian and reject the government.
justinx0r:Iran aggresses - not on a scale that the US does but that doesn't make it all of a sudden OK.
Strawman. No one indicated otherwise.
justinx0r:It's just tiring to see libertarians turn into semi-Iranian apologists because they are 'anti-USA'.
We're anti-statist. That definitely includes the biggest, most violent, tyrannical, and indebted state in the history of man. The American Empire.
To insist people are being apologists is dishonest, because you haven't provided a source for such. Only an insinuation that the motive (which you cannot know) is based on an anti-USA bias.
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
liberty student: Strawman. No one indicated otherwise.
I never said anyone indicated otherwise, I was just making a general comment
liberty student: We're anti-statist. That definitely includes the biggest, most violent, tyrannical, and indebted state in the history of man. The American Empire. To insist people are being apologists is dishonest, because you haven't provided a source for such. Only an insinuation that the motive (which you cannot know) is based on an anti-USA bias.
It's just a trend I've observed on different forums.
Libertyandlife:Zionism is a force based nationalist statist racist movement. There are plenty of libertarians against it (Murray Rothbard for example):
Just shows that even libertarians can be misled by the government-sponsored propaganda.
liberty student: justinx0r:Iran aggresses - not on a scale that the US does but that doesn't make it all of a sudden OK. Strawman. No one indicated otherwise. justinx0r:It's just tiring to see libertarians turn into semi-Iranian apologists because they are 'anti-USA'. We're anti-statist. That definitely includes the biggest, most violent, tyrannical, and indebted state in the history of man. The American Empire. To insist people are being apologists is dishonest, because you haven't provided a source for such. Only an insinuation that the motive (which you cannot know) is based on an anti-USA bias.
It's a result of American exceptionalism. :(
The appeal to "charity" is a truly ironic one. First, it is hardly "charity" to take wealth by force and hand it over to someone else. -Rothbard
liberty student:We're anti-statist. That definitely includes the biggest, most violent, tyrannical, and indebted state in the history of man. The American Empire.
I think we aren't there yet. They still have to destroy American people, conquer Eastern Europe & Asia and carry out another genocide of the Jews. But it's getting close.
Natalie:They still have to destroy American people
Who?
Another thing that keeps popping into my head is the fact that all of this how may be nothing more than a crude attempt to raise crude oil prices further. Without entering in the whole "oil is overpriced/no is priced about right" debate at the beginning of the year crude oil was about 50 US $ a barrel. Consumption has not increased significantly (in Europe it has dropped by about 9% by the beginning of the year and all those merchant vessels sitting idly in Asian ports surely don't need fuel) and prices have been driven by an admixture of investors (both private and institutional) "stocking up" and good old inflation, sorry I meant "quantitative easing". While us end users desire low or at least fair oil prices there are also those who wish for (very) high prices. Iran, whose economy has been in the gutters for quite a few years, is one and the Iraqi puppet government, which relies on oil dollars to keep bribing the armed opposition, is another. And let's not forget all those banks ad brokers in London and New York who were planning on US $ 200 a barrel oil while the rest of us were cursing them and their political allies.
Of course we also need to consider that given the present economic landscape a serious price hike in oil prices would probably be the final nail in the coffin but as the whole "swine" flu scandal shows when you can rely on governments to help your operations out and shield you from consequences you don't have to worry one tiny bit.
Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!
liberty student:Who?
The powers that be, who else?
Telpeurion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel This has got to be one of the best articles on Wikipedia. If you have any supportive bone in your body towards military/political action against Iran, you must read this! Show it to all your pro-war friends! Read the whole thing and then ask yourself these questions: Are western powers deliberately censoring words coming from Iran? And when voices do come out of Iran, are those words being distorted? Is anti-Zionism, a purely political movement against the present STATE of Israel, being misconstrued as antisemitism? Do you find yourself, for the most part, agreeing with the Iranian government's uncensored foreign policy position on Israel?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
This has got to be one of the best articles on Wikipedia. If you have any supportive bone in your body towards military/political action against Iran, you must read this! Show it to all your pro-war friends!
Read the whole thing and then ask yourself these questions:
Are western powers deliberately censoring words coming from Iran?
And when voices do come out of Iran, are those words being distorted?
Is anti-Zionism, a purely political movement against the present STATE of Israel, being misconstrued as antisemitism?
Do you find yourself, for the most part, agreeing with the Iranian government's uncensored foreign policy position on Israel?
Of course. After all, war is the business of all states, therefor, fermenting war [by any means necessary- including lies/misquotes , 911 and other "false flag" operations etc.etc.] is only to be expected.It's the nature of the beast
"Our Enemy, The State" - Albert Jay Nock: http://mises.org/story/3614
free online text: http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/nock/oets1.htm"War is the health of the state"- Randolph Bourne. http://mises.org/literature.aspx?action=author&Id=1270
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randolph_Bourne"War _IS_ the state"- onebornfree." Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace" Harry Elmer Barnes: http://mises.org/story/2783"War is a Racket" Major Gen. Smedley Butler : mises.org/content/empire2.asp http://blog.mises.org/archives/003261.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
Hello From a "Post- Austrian",Anarcho-Capitalist ,Taoist, 911 "No- Planer" :
I don't like the fact, that the mass media - and US officials - are always linking Iran and Russia (and even China) and suggesting that Russia has sold missiles to Iran or built their nuclear program. It's been going on for a while but has intensified lately. Such media campaign usually accompany imperialistic schemes. I'm afraid Iran is going to create some kind of provocation and they'll try to frame Russia for that and either attack outright or introduce some sanctions/blockade to contain the country.
Natalie: I don't like the fact, that the mass media - and US officials - are always linking Iran and Russia (and even China) and suggesting that Russia has sold missiles to Iran or built their nuclear program. It's been going on for a while but has intensified lately. Such media campaign usually accompany imperialistic schemes. I'm afraid Iran is going to create some kind of provocation and they'll try to frame Russia for that and either attack outright or introduce some sanctions/blockade to contain the country.
This is "normal"- it is the nature of the beast.
Governments cannot be expected to tell the truth, and they cannot be limited to specific areas, nor can they be reformed by "good" people being elected to office.
If you want governments in the first place to do the things you think it/they should, actions such as those under discussion in this thread are par for the course, a part of the inevitable [ but mostly unacknowledged] price you must pay for having those governments [supposedly] doing those things _you_ want them to.
"War _IS_ the state" - onebornfree
Natalie:The powers that be, who else?
It was an honest question. I really didn't know who you were talking about.
I still don't.
liberty student:It was an honest question. I really didn't know who you were talking about.
Whoever runs the Empire. Not Obama, that's for sure.
Natalie: Libertyandlife:Zionism is a force based nationalist statist racist movement. There are plenty of libertarians against it (Murray Rothbard for example): Just shows that even libertarians can be misled by the government-sponsored propaganda.
Your saying that anti zionism is state sponsored propaganda? I'm sorry, but are you insane? When has anti zionism had any power in the U.S, it's zionism which has that power. I really hope I either misread this, or there's a typo.
How can a movement have "power"?
Pfft. The USSR, hands down.
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