The only good one I can think of, as an example of what I'm looking for, is the pilgrim's communal farming. Are there any other less commonly known such examples?
I have a forum with some commies/marxists on it that I visit. I'm going to try (this is all just for fun of course - hah) posting a description of a "theoretical" situation describing a communist idea (like deprivatization of land in the pilgrim's case), and ask them whether they think it would work if attempted. If they fall for it, a little later I'll bring up the real life example of it's failure and see what the reaction is. Yeah, I guess it may qualify as "trolling", but hey why not? Who knows maybe it'll plant a seed of doubt in someone's mind.
BTW, the latest claim I've been reading from them basically says communism is a form of anarchy. ugh (Maybe this would be true if we cloned Jesus a few hundred times and put them on a commune.) Fun stuff eh.
North American Phalanx
Swaanendael
Brook Farm
La Réunion
New Harmony
(To be fair, I don't think they were an attempt at communism, but they were centrally planned)
Laissez faire et laissez passer, le monde va de lui même
Llano del Rio
New Llano
http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/33762
Ansury: The only good one I can think of, as an example of what I'm looking for, is the pilgrim's communal farming. Are there any other less commonly known such examples?
Some dysfunctional families may qualify.
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Munster, Germany, 1534-1535.
Rothbard describes it in chapter 5.6 of his History of Economic Thought. Some excerpts:
"After two months of severe and unrelenting pressure, a combination of propaganda about the Christianity of abolishing private money, and threats and terror against those who failed to surrender, the private ownership of money was effectively abolished in Munster. The government seized all the money and used it to buy or hire goods from the outside world. Wages were doled out in kind by the only remaining employer: the theocratic Anabaptist state.Food was confiscated from private homes, and rationed according to the will of the government deacons. Also, to accommodate the immigrants, all private homes were effectively communized, with everyone permitted to quarter themselves anywhere; it was now illegal to close, let alone lock, doors. Communal dining halls were established, where people ate together to readings from the Old Testament.This compulsory communism and reign of terror was carried out in the name of community and Christian 'love'. All this communization was considered the first giant steps toward total egalitarian communism, where, as Rothmann put it, 'all things were to be in common, there was to be no private property and nobody was to do any more work, but simply trust in God'. The workless part, of course, somehow never arrived."
"Capital punishment was decreed for the high crimes of: murder, theft, lying, avarice, and quarrelling(!)"
"Compulsory polygamy was a bit too much for many of the Munsterites, who launched a rebellion in protest. The rebellion, however, was quickly crushed and most of the rebels put to death. Execution was also the fate of any further dissenters. And so by August 1534, polygamy was coercively established in Munster."
"No one was allowed to leave town, and any caught plotting to leave, helping anyone else leave, or criticizing the king, was instantly beheaded, usually by King Bockelson himself. By mid-June [1535] such deeds were occurring daily, with the body often quartered and nailed up as a warning to the masses."
Truth and Liberty
"No army can stop an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Somalia pre-revolution
Ansury: The only good one I can think of, as an example of what I'm looking for, is the pilgrim's communal farming. Are there any other less commonly known such examples? I have a forum with some commies/marxists on it that I visit. I'm going to try (this is all just for fun of course - hah) posting a description of a "theoretical" situation describing a communist idea (like deprivatization of land in the pilgrim's case), and ask them whether they think it would work if attempted. If they fall for it, a little later I'll bring up the real life example of it's failure and see what the reaction is. Yeah, I guess it may qualify as "trolling", but hey why not? Who knows maybe it'll plant a seed of doubt in someone's mind. BTW, the latest claim I've been reading from them basically says communism is a form of anarchy. ugh (Maybe this would be true if we cloned Jesus a few hundred times and put them on a commune.) Fun stuff eh.
Oh my god. I just died and went to heaven! This is the perfect question! I wrote a small 20 page paper on this question and its relation to historical materialism. I'd be happy to email it to you. See what Communists don't like to discuss is there pre-Marxian history. How they came about through religion and bourgeois thinkers. Of course Marxism is still progressed by such individuals but now the definition of proletariat is anyone who isn't Bill Gates. Basically there are four grand movements of Communism before the Malby and Morelly days and they are:
- The Brotherhood of the Free Spirit
- The Bohemian Adamites
-The Taborites
- The Anabaptists
I am indebted to Murray Rothbard's lecture "The Emergence of Communism" for this information. Its a fantastic lecture.
"The Emergence of Communism"
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
Amana,
Oneida,
Brook Farm,
New Harmony.
The Shakers,
The Hutterites (still existing)
It seems to me the right question should be what are some examples of some successful communist communities. The only ones I know of are religious communities.
DBratton: It seems to me the right question should be what are some examples of some successful communist communities. The only ones I know of are religious communities.
A kooky club practicing within a private estate is not communism.
Caley McKibbin: DBratton: It seems to me the right question should be what are some examples of some successful communist communities. The only ones I know of are religious communities. A kooky club practicing within a private estate is not communism.
Then how would you describe an Israeli Kibbutz?
The Kibbutz movement is on its knees, a creature of the state grown used to subsidy and special privilege has left their long term viability in tatters. Since the vast majority of Kibbutzim took out silly loans which they are struggling to pay off, most can't see a future in their socialist forms and there has been a huge push to privatize..
This has made old timers like my Grandfather very unhappy. but the world turns....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz#The_change_processes_in_the_kibbutzim
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/06/americas_socialist_past.html
(Don't take that as an endorsement of anything else on American Thinker.)
http://www.volokh.com/posts/1189140572.shtml
nirgrahamUK: The Kibbutz movement is on its knees, a creature of the state grown used to subsidy and special privilege has left their long term viability in tatters.
The Kibbutz movement is on its knees, a creature of the state grown used to subsidy and special privilege has left their long term viability in tatters.
We might as well add Israel in general, with 55% of its GDP made up by public expenditure and ever weakening economy.
Economic Thought (Latest Post): Don't Be Fooled by GDP
Great thread.
Human Action Comics Issues 1-6
Forgot I posted this thread! A lot of material here!
Laughing Man: See what Communists don't like to discuss is there pre-Marxian history. How they came about through religion and bourgeois thinkers.
See what Communists don't like to discuss is there pre-Marxian history. How they came about through religion and bourgeois thinkers.
By some lucky timing, I just happen to be reading a lecture/essay by Mises where he cites some examples of basically "enemies of capitalism" (my words) and it fits this pattern perfectly. The first example was the British "Speenhamland" system which was basically a subsidy to benefit the aristocracy (who were having labor shortage problems due to capitalism) of course, under the guise of "helping out the poor" it seems. The second example was the reaction Prussian Junkers had to the same problem. The upper class really did NOT like capitalism apparently (very interesting!), so what you're saying seems entirely plausible.
I'll read your paper (although, if you can you should consider writing a slimmed down version to publish on the site here!) Is there a way for us to send email through the site or do I need to PM the address to you?
Actually I think I am going to take your advice and slim it down. See if I can get Mises to publish it in the daily.
nirgrahamUK:The Kibbutz movement is on its knees,
But for the first few decades it did work. It is dying now mainly because the offspring of the original kibbutzniks didn't choose to follow in their parents footsteps. When you see someone working in the fields at a kibbutz nowadays it might even be a Palestinian getting paid by the hour.
Monasteries were totally communist and thrived for centuries. The Hutterite movement is still around (I think it's declining now though). Voluntary communist societies, those in which the members choose to accept the economic consequences of communal ownership, can survive and history is full of examples. All of the successful examples I know of though had some sort of religious motivation holding them together.
DBratton:But for the first few decades it did work.
They were subsidized.
nirgrahamUK: DBratton:But for the first few decades it did work. They were subsidized.
By who? The Ottomans? The British?
first charitable bodies like the JNF, then from the founding of the state; Israel
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