I haven't taken an economics class, but I'm not sure how to refute the popular theory that nobody trusted Banks because of the lack of regulation and fractional reserve banking.
So I was debating with my egotistical friend, who came to me about it because his economics professor tore apart Ron Paul's book in class, and debunked all the libertarian myths about the Depression. FUCK I am pissed.
What, in detail was it that caused it?
Him:try reading a textbook
So let me get this straight.... Your "friend" takes a class, where the professor spews one-sided vitriol that arouses an emotional response from him, and he suddenly thinks that he's the unfalsifiable master of economics and the universe?
I'm guessing he does this every time he looks at a Wikipedia page.
When dealing with people like this, you can't rely on blanket statements like "in truth [blah blah blah]". Establish a set of factual records by which you can both verify or deny the veracity of each others' statements.
Statements like "no one trusted the banks without regulation" are incredibly stupid. First off, American banks have always been both regulated AND protected, if not at the national level, then the state level. American banking history is rife with laws allowing banks to suspend redemption of notes, as well as creating central banks and national banking cartels. Secondly, there has never been a period in history when the banks were blatantly not trusted and subject to constant bank runs.
Larry White and George Selgin have posted some very powerful information about why thousands of American banks failed in 1930-33 vs. 0 in Canada. For one, states were granting banking holidays, which basically froze the banks. Depositors could not withdraw their money, nor could they claim a share of the bank's assets through bankruptcy proceedings. There was rumors FDR would do this nationally. Also, there were rumors that FDR would debase the dollar. This prompted depositors to run on the banks. The rumors proved true, and FDR debased the dollar 44%, a quite substantial amount. And finally, branch banking was outlawed in America. Canada did not make these mistakes and no banks failed, despite a massive deflation of their money supply, a greater drop than in America.
Here's a better explanation:
http://www.richmondfed.org/publications/research/region_focus/2009/winter/full_interview.cfm
So to suggest that a lack of regulation caused the bank runs is false. If anything the opposite is true. The federal reserve DID have regulatory authority over its member banks at the time. It regulated them (and itself) poorly.
And to suggest deposit insurance is both limited to bank profit and effective in creating bank stability is not backed by any evidence. The S&L crisis is the primary example. Depositors put their money in whatever S&L offered the highest rate, independent of risk. At the same time, they were regulated to only hold 30 year mortgages as assets. So when interest rates spiked, they had to pay more to depositors to receive deposits that regulations forced them to hold than their borrowers owed them on outstanding loans.
So just call him a cheerleader for a lie that the government and public schools want him to believe. If he wants to discover the truth, tell him he better look at facts.
Check my blog, if you're a loser
Democracy for Breakfast:Saggittarius and Pisces don't really get along.
gimme a break.
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
Democracy for Breakfast:He just seems to try to discourage me, crush my beliefs, imagination, ect whatsoever
Perhaps you have already been asked this but...
Why is he your friend and why do you talk to him?
Democracy for Breakfast:It seems a lot of adults would agree that I am ignorant and immature person. *sigh*
Get educated and shut them up. I gave you a list of material that once read will allow you to easily refute this 'friend' of yours. If you haven't read it then it is only your fault. Stop sighing and start reading if that is how you feel.
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
Laughing Man: Democracy for Breakfast:He just seems to try to discourage me, crush my beliefs, imagination, ect whatsoever Perhaps you have already been asked this but... Why is he your friend and why do you talk to him? Democracy for Breakfast:It seems a lot of adults would agree that I am ignorant and immature person. *sigh* Get educated and shut them up. I gave you a list of material that once read will allow you to easily refute this 'friend' of yours. If you haven't read it then it is only your fault. Stop sighing and start reading if that is how you feel.
Because I've known him for a long time. He might just be correct, about the things he says... not sure if he means harm
I've had somewhat similar conversations, and I figure that if people don't have any better arguments, they aren't worth debating with. Tell them to do their own research if they are interested, refer them to Hazlitt's Econ in 1 Lesson, or something like that. I mean, it isn't like the person is going to say, "okay, I see, it makes sense, you're right, I am wrong...", just point out common sense, and leave them to chew it over. I suspect that people like that don't really want to know the truth, they just want to just argue with someone and feel so much "smarter" and more "intelligent" by ripping you apart.
Democracy for Breakfast:He might just be correct, about the things he says...
If you think he might be correct then why are you giving this prima facie defense of anti-Fed sentiments?
Democracy for Breakfast:not sure if he means harm
When is intellectual suffocation not harmless? You said the guy is trying to crush your beliefs and dreams yet you don't know if he means harm? It seems to me that you need to discover yourself before you even begin to debate politics with others. That is probably why people treat you like a silly teenager.
Laughing Man: Democracy for Breakfast:He might just be correct, about the things he says... If you think he might be correct then why are you giving this prima facie defense of anti-Fed sentiments? Democracy for Breakfast:not sure if he means harm When is intellectual suffocation not harmless? You said the guy is trying to crush your beliefs and dreams yet you don't know if he means harm? It seems to me that you need to discover yourself before you even begin to debate politics with others. That is probably why people treat you like a silly teenager.
He's really the only one who seems to treat me like that. Do you mean find myself politically? I think Libertarian is what suits me best, since libertarian politics are all about you.
There are a lot of things he is wrong about, but I don't see how he could not change his opinion about me after 6-7 years. He doesn't see that I've changed at all, and he sprobably right that I didn't, I'm still some immature kid who has no place among intellectuals.
It seems that both of you are goofs. However, you have succeeded at one thing he failed: realizing the the overarching truth about the Federal Reserve. He is a lip flapper, not a listener. He will never learn. You have nothing to gain form listening to his flapping. Pretend he doesn't exist. Case closed.
Democracy for Breakfast:He's really the only one who seems to treat me like that.
Then cut off discussion with him. No point in trying to change someone who is so overzealous in their beliefs.
Democracy for Breakfast:Do you mean find myself politically? I think Libertarian is what suits me best, since libertarian politics are all about you.
Libertarianism is not simply limited to what 'works' for you. In some sense it is and in some sense it isn't. Sure there is this axiom called the non-aggression and that's really cool. I don't like to fight people, I find it barbaric. However, the implications of such an tenet go beyond just me thinking its really cool. It is a code of how to act and how not to act. What is rational and allowable in a society. What is afforded to myself and what is afforded to others around me. You could like libertarianism because you don't like getting punched in the face, but I would say you are missing out on the best part of libertarianism which is the rich history, the rigorous logical deduction and the aesthetic beauty of the system itself.
You're the target kid in my analysis who turns the other cheek to his aggressors. Swimming in a pool of negativity has left you thirsty for a network of negatively charged nodes, which further demoralize you. What you think is Pascal's Wager in reality is Stockholm Syndrome.
Democracy for Breakfast: auctionguy10: Your friend is just way too immature to have any breakthroughs with. He needs to deal with his own issues and insecurities- its obvious he has a whole lot of them, he projects it right away. Sorry, but he isn't like that at all. Hes 27, almost 10 years older then I am. He's known me for 4-5 years. He just seems to try to discourage me, crush my beliefs, imagination, ect whatsoever. He talks to me about how immature,ignorant and racist I am. He refuses to believe I'm good at anything, and sees me as a defunct being with no intellectual value, who's inept at life. Also, I'm the only one he doesn't really get along with, so maybe its true. It seems a lot of adults would agree that I am ignorant and immature person. *sigh* I don't see how he doesn't have a right to get frustrated at me so easily, its mostly just because hes honest but he swears a lot. Saggittarius and Pisces don't really get along.
auctionguy10: Your friend is just way too immature to have any breakthroughs with. He needs to deal with his own issues and insecurities- its obvious he has a whole lot of them, he projects it right away.
Your friend is just way too immature to have any breakthroughs with. He needs to deal with his own issues and insecurities- its obvious he has a whole lot of them, he projects it right away.
Sorry, but he isn't like that at all. Hes 27, almost 10 years older then I am. He's known me for 4-5 years. He just seems to try to discourage me, crush my beliefs, imagination, ect whatsoever. He talks to me about how immature,ignorant and racist I am. He refuses to believe I'm good at anything, and sees me as a defunct being with no intellectual value, who's inept at life. Also, I'm the only one he doesn't really get along with, so maybe its true.
It seems a lot of adults would agree that I am ignorant and immature person. *sigh*
I don't see how he doesn't have a right to get frustrated at me so easily, its mostly just because hes honest but he swears a lot. Saggittarius and Pisces don't really get along.
Being 10 years older doesn't mean he's mature. Being discouraging, crushing your beliefs, telling you how ignorant/racist you are, refusing to believe you're good at anything, seeing you as a defunct being with no intellectual value and who's inept at life....that's exactly why he's immature and has severe insecurities. That kind of attitude is simply child-like, yeah he has a "right" to get frustrated at you easily, but if he IS getting frustrated easily he is not a mature man plain and simple and has issues he needs to get a handle on. A mature man doesn't get frustrated easily.
Well of course you're a bit immature- you're only 18, but that's ok you'll grow up. Just advice, you can take it for what you will, but don't accept negativity people throw at you. There's no reason to, its not helpful, and it'll lock you into a mindset where you think "You know...maybe I am ignorant and immature..."- which can stay with you for YEARS if you never get a handle on it.
From the convo you posted you had a lot more composure then this guy. He should understand that you're young and that you're still learning things, for him to talk the way he does smacks of insecurity. Don't give anyone excuses to talk down to you. You're young and open to learning things new, this guy's a big baby.
Capital Pumper: You're the target kid in my analysis who turns the other cheek to his aggressors. Swimming in a pool of negativity has left you thirsty for a network of negatively charged nodes, which further demoralize you. What you think is Pascal's Wager, in reality is Stockholm Syndrome.
You're the target kid in my analysis who turns the other cheek to his aggressors. Swimming in a pool of negativity has left you thirsty for a network of negatively charged nodes, which further demoralize you. What you think is Pascal's Wager, in reality is Stockholm Syndrome.
Always with the negative waves!
There is a great book with a weird name called Compassion and Self Hate by T. I. Rubin. Don't wanna sound heretical, but it is more important to understand the contents of that book than all of this website, which is saying a lot.
It will open your eyes to what your "friend" is doing, what you are doing chatting with him, what the good willed people here are trying to tell you. Oh to have read that book at 18!
Laughing Man: Democracy for Breakfast:He's really the only one who seems to treat me like that. Then cut off discussion with him. No point in trying to change someone who is so overzealous in their beliefs. Democracy for Breakfast:Do you mean find myself politically? I think Libertarian is what suits me best, since libertarian politics are all about you. but I would say you are missing out on the best part of libertarianism which is the rich history, the rigorous logical deduction and the aesthetic beauty of the system itself.
but I would say you are missing out on the best part of libertarianism which is the rich history, the rigorous logical deduction and the aesthetic beauty of the system itself.
What do you mean? And I would like to look at the history of it all. I was already pretty turned on by Andrew Jackson. I'd like to read more by philosophers like Locke though.
Ron Paul was the one who got me into Libertarianism. I'm a Libertarian because I value individualism.
auctionguy10: Democracy for Breakfast: auctionguy10: Your friend is just way too immature to have any breakthroughs with. He needs to deal with his own issues and insecurities- its obvious he has a whole lot of them, he projects it right away. Sorry, but he isn't like that at all. Hes 27, almost 10 years older then I am. He's known me for 4-5 years. He just seems to try to discourage me, crush my beliefs, imagination, ect whatsoever. He talks to me about how immature,ignorant and racist I am. He refuses to believe I'm good at anything, and sees me as a defunct being with no intellectual value, who's inept at life. Also, I'm the only one he doesn't really get along with, so maybe its true. It seems a lot of adults would agree that I am ignorant and immature person. *sigh* I don't see how he doesn't have a right to get frustrated at me so easily, its mostly just because hes honest but he swears a lot. Saggittarius and Pisces don't really get along. Being 10 years older doesn't mean he's mature. Being discouraging, crushing your beliefs, telling you how ignorant/racist you are, refusing to believe you're good at anything, seeing you as a defunct being with no intellectual value and who's inept at life....that's exactly why he's immature and has severe insecurities. That kind of attitude is simply child-like, yeah he has a "right" to get frustrated at you easily, but if he IS getting frustrated easily he is not a mature man plain and simple and has issues he needs to get a handle on. A mature man doesn't get frustrated easily. Well of course you're a bit immature- you're only 18, but that's ok you'll grow up. Just advice, you can take it for what you will, but don't accept negativity people throw at you. There's no reason to, its not helpful, and it'll lock you into a mindset where you think "You know...maybe I am ignorant and immature..."- which can stay with you for YEARS if you never get a handle on it. From the convo you posted you had a lot more composure then this guy. He should understand that you're young and that you're still learning things, for him to talk the way he does smacks of insecurity. Don't give anyone excuses to talk down to you. You're young and open to learning things new, this guy's a big baby.
He isn't self conscious of anything, he's just a Narcissist.
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