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Are you against any government program?

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Spideynw replied on Wed, Sep 16 2009 9:03 PM

Knight_of_BAAWA:

Spideynw:
You don't think there is a difference between being in a jail cell or being dead?
I see no difference between violating my rights and violating my rights.

That's sad.  I definitely know the difference between someone being put in a cage and being killed.  Nothing I can do if you do not.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw replied on Wed, Sep 16 2009 9:04 PM

jmorris84:

I think his point is that if everyone stopped doing it, there wouldn't be enough cages to put people in.

Good luck Spidey!

Yea, someone understands!

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw replied on Wed, Sep 16 2009 9:05 PM

socialdtk:
If each and every anarcho-capitalist would today refuse to pay their taxes the effect would go almost unnoticed.

I would disagree.  If we all congregated to the same geographic area, I think it would make a huge difference.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw:

socialdtk:
If each and every anarcho-capitalist would today refuse to pay their taxes the effect would go almost unnoticed.

I would disagree.  If we all congregated to the same geographic area, I think it would make a huge difference.

It would be like shooting fish in a barrel, provided that the government is the AR15 rifle.

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socialdtk replied on Wed, Sep 16 2009 9:22 PM

Spideynw:
I would disagree.  If we all congregated to the same geographic area, I think it would make a huge difference.

What do you mean by make a huge difference?  In order for me to risk spending a large chuck of my life in a 12 by 8 cider block room I'd expect something great in return.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 16 2009 9:30 PM

Spideynw:


Do you still pay your taxes? If you do, then you are part of the problem. Nothing will change until we stop giving them our wealth.

How about you go first and tell us how it works out.

 

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Spideynw:

Solarist:

Spideynw:
Do you still pay your taxes? If you do, then you are part of the problem. Nothing will change until we stop giving them our wealth.

I tend to hand over my wallet when a robber is brandishing a gun.

First of all, they are not threatening to kill you.  They are threatening to throw you in a cage.

Apart from the fact that being thrown in a cage (coupled with torture in more autoritharian regimes) is still a grim perspective, they will actually kill you if you put up a fight. Go figure what happens when you're on the "wanted" tax evasion criminals list and they're trying to apprehend you. If the usual way things happen is the guy not paying taxes goes to jail, it doesn't mean they won't kill you. Of course, they don't do it if you comply, but you were talking about resisting the government.

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Juan replied on Wed, Sep 16 2009 10:47 PM
I would disagree. If we all congregated to the same geographic area, I think it would make a huge difference.
Yes. The problem is that there are very few libertarians out there.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Knight_of_BAAWA:
I see no difference between violating my rights and violating my rights.
Spideynw:
That's sad.
No, it's not. Nothing I can do if you think otherwise.

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liege replied on Wed, Sep 16 2009 10:50 PM

Spideynw:
Do you still pay your taxes? If you do, then you are part of the problem. Nothing will change until we stop giving them our wealth.

Sadly, I don't think tax resisting will deprive government of wealth. Everyone here should be keenly aware that most of the money government spends doesn't even come from taxes, but from inflation. I think one of Reagan's commissions actually established the fact that only a third of federal outlays are covered by income taxes. I wish i could remember the name of that report ...

The only way to really deprive them of wealth would be to stop using FRN's, but that's not completely up to liberty-minded individuals since 99.9% of the products and services you'll be buying to survive will be from people who will only take the funny money. Unfortunately, the market favors the legal tender, and who would really know what to do with a solid gold coin if they ever got one? How much would they figure its worth? Who would they know who would take it as payment? etc.

I'm not gonna knock you spidey. Its at least courageous to take that stand. Just know that it might be a lonely stand for awhile. But, in the end, once all is said and done, no one can accuse you of jumping on the bandwagon! ;)

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AJ replied on Thu, Sep 17 2009 2:00 AM

liege:
The only way to really deprive them of wealth would be to stop using FRN's

Digital gold with powerful encryption might one day soon prevent all monitoring of Internet transactions, making legal tender laws unenforceable: Net-Based Microsecession

Think outside the monopoly paradigm. Net-based microsecession | Why anarchy hasn't worked

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Spideynw replied on Thu, Sep 17 2009 8:55 AM

socialdtk:

Spideynw:
I would disagree.  If we all congregated to the same geographic area, I think it would make a huge difference.

What do you mean by make a huge difference?  In order for me to risk spending a large chuck of my life in a 12 by 8 cider block room I'd expect something great in return.

I mean they would give up and not put anyone in jail.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw replied on Thu, Sep 17 2009 8:59 AM

Capital Pumper:

Spideynw:

socialdtk:
If each and every anarcho-capitalist would today refuse to pay their taxes the effect would go almost unnoticed.

I would disagree.  If we all congregated to the same geographic area, I think it would make a huge difference.

It would be like shooting fish in a barrel, provided that the government is the AR15 rifle.

No, it would be like trying to go to 20,000 homes, and forcefully taking 20,000 people to court and forcefully putting them in jail, depriving the area of 20,000 productive people.  These 20,000 people have to be housed and fed (if in the U.S.), paid for by the local populace.  The local government would have to let them go, just like California, because it could not afford to keep them imprisoned, if the government even tried in the first place. 

Try looking at the bigger picture here people.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw replied on Thu, Sep 17 2009 9:00 AM

Poptech:

Spideynw:


Do you still pay your taxes? If you do, then you are part of the problem. Nothing will change until we stop giving them our wealth.

How about you go first and tell us how it works out.

Ian from freetalklive.com has already, for the last three years.  He seems to be doing just fine.  I intend to move up there and join him in a few years.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw replied on Thu, Sep 17 2009 9:01 AM

Eduard - Gabriel Munteanu:
Apart from the fact that being thrown in a cage (coupled with torture in more autoritharian regimes) is still a grim perspective, they will actually kill you if you put up a fight.

Which is why you do not put up a fight.

Eduard - Gabriel Munteanu:
but you were talking about resisting the government.

No I was not.  I was talking about not obeying, not resisting.  Big difference.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw replied on Thu, Sep 17 2009 9:06 AM

liege:
The only way to really deprive them of wealth would be to stop using FRN's, but that's not completely up to liberty-minded individuals since 99.9% of the products and services you'll be buying to survive will be from people who will only take the funny money.

This is definitely another problem at the national level.  However, local and state governments do not print currency, and as such, it would work extremely well to bring them down.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Being in prison is much worse than being in a cage. You'd rather they have killed you.

 

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Spideynw:
First of all, they are not threatening to kill you.  They are threatening to throw you in a cage.

Threatening to throw you in a cage is threatening you with death. Why? Because I just decided that I don't feel like going in a cage. Whats the next step?

Spideynw:
Second of all, if enough people stopped paying, what do you think they would do?

Privatize tax collection.

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Spideynw replied on Thu, Sep 17 2009 12:11 PM

twistedbydsign99:

Spideynw:
First of all, they are not threatening to kill you.  They are threatening to throw you in a cage.

Threatening to throw you in a cage is threatening you with death. Why? Because I just decided that I don't feel like going in a cage. Whats the next step?

They forcibly throw you in the jail.

 

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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