liberty student: wilderness:I'm asking him if there is such a thing as a light bulb? It's a pretty simple question. Which you brought over from another discussion.
wilderness:I'm asking him if there is such a thing as a light bulb? It's a pretty simple question.
Which you brought over from another discussion.
yeah. it's the same standing dialogue which only proves my point further.
liberty student: It's not even relevant to this thread, except your attempt to corner or discredit him.
It's not even relevant to this thread, except your attempt to corner or discredit him.
He's a Republican conservative in a thread on how they try to discredit liberty and what not. It's completely relevant from what I see.
liberty student: I don't know what your goals are,
I don't know what your goals are,
I don't know yours, but mine's liberty.
liberty student:but except for your own self-gratification,
I suggest working on your dialogue. it will improve your assertions instead of making up these ghost stories to scare the kids in the middle of the night.
liberty student: I don't see how the last 10 posts about the light bulb have furthered anything.
I don't see how the last 10 posts about the light bulb have furthered anything.
since you didn't ask... you know we all don't get everything all the time.
liberty student: YMMV.
YMMV.
whatever that means.
"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe
wilderness:it will improve your assertions instead of making up these ghost stories to scare the kids in the middle of the night.
Which ghost stories?
If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North
liberty student: wilderness:it will improve your assertions instead of making up these ghost stories to scare the kids in the middle of the night. Which ghost stories?
I don't think you are accurate from time to time and you speculate about other people without proper dialogue. Of course I do the same, but we all can't shine 24/7. You are making assertions about me that are not true. Believe what you will, but without a respectable dialogue I can't help it if you feel and think the way you do. nobody's perfect and what you think I'm saying - might - not be what I'm actually saying. If you're trying to find water at this well, and you can't find the bucket to draw the water from then maybe you're not finding what you need with me, or maybe you're not trying to find anything from me. But you did start this conversation.
liberty student:What is the difference between minarchists and conservative Republicans? To me, it seems Republicans at least believe in the state they defend.
Abortion (sometimes), the "war" on drugs, non-defensive real wars, prostitution (the legality, not patronage), gay marriage, porn....
wilderness:I don't think you are accurate from time to time and you speculate about other people without proper dialogue.
I asked you about the ghost stories to scare the kids in the middle of the night. What does that actually mean? In plain english.
wilderness:You are making assertions about me that are not true.
Such as? Please back up your claims with more than meandering word play.
JackCuyler: liberty student:What is the difference between minarchists and conservative Republicans? To me, it seems Republicans at least believe in the state they defend. Abortion (sometimes), the "war" on drugs, non-defensive real wars, prostitution (the legality, not patronage), gay marriage, porn....
Jack, isn't that my point? Minarchists accept a control system but expect liberty. They are sucked into a Utopia fantasy. It's classic doublethink. At least conservatives recognize the state for the blunt weapon it is, and expect to be able to wield it to their own ends. Minarchist libertarians are like people who want a gun in the house but won't load it.
liberty student: wilderness:I don't think you are accurate from time to time and you speculate about other people without proper dialogue. I asked you about the ghost stories to scare the kids in the middle of the night. What does that actually mean? In plain english.
1. Look where I said this - look where I responded to you with this comment.
2. Do you believe in ghosts? I don't think ghosts are real, but maybe you do, so, bad analogy on my part. So you are making up stuff about me - as I said - that isn't true/real. I went on to say I can't help it you feel or think this way. and what you think I'm saying - might - not be what I'm saying, etc... no big deal.
"I try to give the C4L a pass. But I notice how little promo they get on LRC, and that's indicative of the fact that liberty flows from C4L to LRC,and not the other way around."
Sorry, I mostly just lurk here, but what in the world does that mean?
Thanks,
John
johnclonts:Sorry, I mostly just lurk here
You should be sorry you mostly lurk. Get postin!
johnclonts:what in the world does that mean?
I meant that Lew Rockwell gets more press on C4L, than C4L gets on LRC. And that is indicative of the fact that radical anti-statism is the goal at LRC, not organizing under the state and voting for progress. If you've heard Lew Rockwell on Napolitano's show, when asked about politics, he is not a big fan of political action. Ron Paul didn't energize people to vote (or he would have done better) he energized people to see the state for what it is.
A gang of thieves. Nothing more, nothing less.
wilderness:So you are making up stuff about me - as I said - that isn't true/real.
Such as?
liberty student: wilderness:So you are making up stuff about me - as I said - that isn't true/real. Such as?
ok. You are not reading your comment that I responded to, as I pointed out the last time you asked me this. good enough.
wilderness:ok. You are not reading your comment that I responded to, as I pointed out the last time you asked me this. good enough.
No, I did. You took it out of context. Use the first portion of that sentence.
liberty student:I don't know what your goals are, but except for your own self-gratification, I don't see how the last 10 posts about the light bulb have furthered anything.
Second, you mentioned "stories" (plural). What other stuff have I "made up about you"?
We're going to get to the bottom of this. If I owe you an apology, you're going to get it. But if you're crying wolf, then let it be known. Let's clear the air.
GilesStratton:I must be missing something, because I just don't get it.
So much truth packed into one short sentence.
liberty student: wilderness:ok. You are not reading your comment that I responded to, as I pointed out the last time you asked me this. good enough. No, I did. You took it out of context. Use the first portion of that sentence.
ok. I took it out of context. I apologize, but I'm really very tentative with you anymore - it's me ok. I honestly try to avoid discussing with you, unless I find it to be a really agreeable point (as in the 9/11 on a particular topic, if I remember correctly it had to do with 'questioning the government in general'), and then I felt much has passed and so I was merely laying out my opinion in another thread on PDA's and what I think. I didn't find that to be a debatable subject so I sort of slid in what I thought. I thought the thread was flowing fairly well and felt comfortable to converse with everybody in it.
ok, out of context, i find no need for further explanation.
liberty student: Second, you mentioned "stories" (plural). What other stuff have I "made up about you"?
The "shaming" that originated in this current, off thread topic discussion (by you and me ) - I apologize Silentx...(sorry can't remember how to spell whole name). If it appears that way, it appears that way. I'm not going to get into it. I really didn't try to shame him other than point out his republican conservative mantra which in this thread, of all other threads, i thought was more fair game than ever. Politics gets tough. Maybe that's shaming. I don't know.
I really felt Poptech was avoiding what I think lies at the heart of why it seems alot of disagreement happens with him (not always, some). It was my own little way of trying to lay some kind of agreeable foundation. Seriously, I was trying to get some kind of agreement between him and I in which to further build upon. But in my opinion, if somebody can't agree that A=A, then trying to talk about conservatives, minarchism, and anarchy is never going to happen as these are highly complex concepts. I even stopped discussing with him, maybe it was two nights ago I can't remember. It really wasn't going anywhere. Then I felt maybe I'd give it another go and try to dialogue again. I was trying to narrow the discussion down with him this time around because too much to talk about at once, for me, gets too complicated and I think distracting (for me, I don't know about other people they may be able to handle it better than I can).
liberty student: We're going to get to the bottom of this. If I owe you an apology, you're going to get it. But if you're crying wolf, then let it be known. Let's clear the air.
i was going to write something personal about myself and how I might appear at times, but it got boring. i'll simply end this with an - ok.
wilderness:I apologize
OK. And if I have wronged you, for that I apologize.
As they say in Office Space 'Hug it out b*tch'
'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition
In honor of Laughing Man's new signature.
i was going to make a new thread, but this youtube (which is probably old) was posted on another website I venture for some news, and it fits in with Republican Conservatism. Now this video is all about Republicans, but to be fair I'll add the recent Democratic continuance of the one party Welfare-Warfare State that include a potential attack on Iran, the actual invasion of Somalia, the Obama hoodwink as he is not really changing/de-arming the missile defense system in Eastern Europe, the call for more troops in Iraq and Afghan, the hop across the border ventures into Pakistan, and the South American moves with Columbia opening up bases for the U.S. as Venezuela-Russia ties continue - oh - and etc... the list is TOO, TOO, TOO damn long.
liberty student:Non-sequitur.
Not at all, if something is a "natural state" you would expect it to show up in the real world somewhere, yet the planet is dominated by governments.
liberty student:No, it is the reductio ad absurdum if you believe it is necessary to have an absolute arbiter of law. So far, you have indicated that there must be an absolute authority.
If you have conflicting laws and multiple arbiters who is the authority? In an anarchist society why would I listen to any law? Who is going to make me?
liberty student:Yes I did. The people whose property the government stole.
What if no one owned it previously or they purchased it in a transaction that both parties agreed to?
liberty student:You're dodging. Were the Founders terrorists and traitors or not?
Dodging? You keep creating new arguments that I was never discussing. To the British government they were traitors, to the colonists they were revolutionaries. I have not heard the terrorist argument in relation to the founding fathers. Regardless it is subjective.
liberty student: Ditch the dictionary, stop googling furiously, and start researching libertarianism. As for who decides the moral code? That's a good question. I would say it is subjective. Others here would argue it is objective. Regardless, a libertarian is for non-aggression, which necessarily makes him an anti-statist.
Ditch the dictionary, stop googling furiously, and start researching libertarianism.
As for who decides the moral code? That's a good question. I would say it is subjective. Others here would argue it is objective. Regardless, a libertarian is for non-aggression, which necessarily makes him an anti-statist.
I will not for the definition of words.
Morality is always subjective. I can find no dictionary definition of the word libertarian that includes "non-agression". If you can show me a dictionary (non-wiki) that includes this definition I will be willing to accept it.
liberty student:I explained the logical consequences of holding that the American government and Constitution are legitimate. If you believe they are legitimate, then that means that the right of secession is a fundamental human right, as Jefferson wrote in the declaration. Which means the state has no right to force people to cooperate. If you don't believe secession is a right, or that the state is right to compel then it means the American government is illegitimate.
Legitimacy is subjective. Internationally a large majority of world governments consider the US "legitimate". Whether I believe the US government is legitimate has nothing to do with a belief in succession being a fundamental human right. Succession as history has shown requires the military might to do so. The word "succession" does not appear in the Declaration of Independence.
liberty student:An investigator cannot act as your agent in recovery.
Repossession of property happens all the time in the private sector.
liberty student:Absolutely it does. Libertarians understand the value of insurance, and the purpose it serves to provide a mechanism to price collective risk.
Alarm companies and private security are not considered "insurance" so neither would the police, they are services. Insurance is a hedge against unforeseen and unlikely events.
"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises
Governments exercise a degree of power over natural market and non-market voluntary interactions, but that power, in the eyes of history, is microscopic in comparision to that of the market. The State is a parasite on a much more powerful, life affirming organism, society itself. Markets, cooperatives, etc. ARE everywhere, the state has simply taken possession of a small portion of society.
You would obey laws for the same reason that you do now, there is a threat behind them, either banashiment, refusal of service, or violence depending on the instance. There is simply a much higher probability that the laws will be fair, while now, with the state, that probability is much lower.
Most sources of libertarian theory and ideas refernence a "Non-Aggression Principle/Axiom". While it doesn't seem to be a necessary view to hold to qualify as a libertarian, it is certainly a powerful component of the philosophies of most historical libertarians.
Angurse:And? Its inspired by his pioneering work, it isn't supposed to be a temple for him.
I made not claim of a temple only a rational belief that an institution named after someone would not only support beliefs not espoused by the person the institution was named after. This is logical. The claim that minarchist views are not acceptable at an institution named after a person who held these views is illogical.
Angurse:No, they use them in the specialised manner of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, much of these term arguments could be solved if you took the time to read this very site. And the idea that there is a "correct" form of English is just false.
So you suppot freely defining words and abolishing dictionaries? How would we communicate if you can define words how you please?
Angurse:whats that "velocity?" of money?
I was able to find that definition in a dictionary.
Velocity of Money (defined) "The rate at which a given dollar changes hands during a certain period of time. The faster money turns over, the higher the velocity. A higher velocity is associated with a higher dollar volume of transactions and could lead to inflation. Velocity is calculated by dividing gross domestic product by money supply. Economists who subscribe to monetarism believe that the changes in velocity are fairly predictable, and they study the causes of money growth and changes in velocity to estimate future economic growth."
Angurse:And to be totally laissez faire requires the absence of government entirely though.
Not at all, a government can exist to be the arbitrator and protector of property rights without interfering in the economy.
Angurse:Its not a statist or anarchist institution. Its an academic institution that focuses on economics, politics and philosophy who its named after is irrelevant.
I agree except that I believe the name to be very relevant but that is not what is being implied here by others.
Angurse:Well that settles it, property rights and liberty are an impossibility with a state, the dictionary even confirms it.
They are clearly possible. The dictionary makes no mention of this impossibility or evens mentions government.
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