The Mises Community
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

In Light of Recent Conspiracy Talk...

rated by 0 users
This post has 35 Replies | 9 Followers

Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,493
Points 28,535
Moderator
krazy kaju Posted: Mon, Sep 14 2009 3:38 PM

I found this and this interesting. There's more to be found here.

I'm no fan of 9/11 conspiracy theories, but it certainly brings up certain interesting points, like:
1. Israeli intelligence probably had some foreknowledge about a major terrorist strike.
2. It is very improbable that a group of third world terrorists would have the ability to organize a massive terrorist attack against the United States.
3.  Israel has the technical capability of organizing such an attack.
4. Israel has an incentive to get the United States involved in a war against Arab/Islamist governments.

This certainly doesn't prove anything. It is possible that Israeli intelligence didn't have any foreknowledge of a major terrorist attack inside the United States. But at the very least, it calls for a declassification of the investigation of 9/11.

Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 601
Points 13,045
Poptech replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 3:59 PM

This is all nonsense and long ago debunked.

Unraveling Anti-Semitic 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (PDF) (The Anti-Defamation League)

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

  • | Post Points: 80
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 4,094
Points 65,835
Moderator

krazy kaju:
2. It is very improbable that a group of third world terrorists would have the ability to organize a massive terrorist attack against the United States.

it was a lowtech attack wasnt it? its not like the hijackers had the technical knowhow to construct aircraft from scratch. they merely used physical force aboard aircrafts to gain control of the flight.. its not like third world hijackers have not hijacked hundreds of planes aside from 9/11. the 'massivity' is only a function of several teams of hijackers doing their hijacks at simultaneously, and picking highvalue ramming targets...

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 7,643
Points 132,720
MVP
SystemAdministrator

The conspiracy theory KK referenced is not anti-semitic.  It's not a conspiracy about Jews, it is a conspiracy about the Israeli government.  Jews != Israeli government.  That is libertarianism 101.

A higher standard of posting please...

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 601
Points 13,045
Poptech replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 5:02 PM

liberty student:
The conspiracy theory KK referenced is not anti-semitic.  It's not a conspiracy about Jews, it is a conspiracy about the Israeli government.  Jews != Israeli government.  That is libertarianism 101.

A higher standard of posting please...

If you actually read the document, it is about the Israel conspiracy theories. So does a "higher standard of posting" mean not staying directly on topic?

 

 

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 7,643
Points 132,720
MVP
SystemAdministrator

Poptech:
If you actually read the document, it is about the Israel conspiracy theories.

And they repeatedly reference anti-semitism.  Before the TOC, they reference Jews at least a half dozen times.

I'll repeat, Israel != Jews.  So don't try to conflate the two with bullshit sources like the ADL.  And certainly don't conflate Raimondo with anti-semitism either.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 601
Points 13,045
Poptech replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 5:21 PM

liberty student:
And they repeatedly reference anti-semitism.  Before the TOC, they reference Jews at least a half dozen times.

So? Is this a politically correct forum now

liberty student:
I'll repeat, Israel != Jews.  So don't try to conflate the two with bullshit sources like the ADL.  And certainly don't conflate Raimondo with anti-semitism either

The only bullshit sources are ones about 911 conspiracy theories, Raimondo included. But hey the agenda here is propaganda.

 

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Posts 534
Points 9,945
DD5 replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 5:31 PM
Just for the mere consistency, you can’t attribute such competence to governments only when it comes to conspiracy theories. It really isn’t that difficult to cause harm on a massive scale to US citizens or any citizens. The myth of national defense is after all, really a myth.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 200 Contributor
Posts 181
Points 3,010
Seph replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 6:13 PM

Poptech:

This is all nonsense and long ago debunked.

Unraveling Anti-Semitic 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (PDF) (The Anti-Defamation League)

Well if the ADL says so..!!!!

Here's the ADL's modus operandi when encountering a hostile argument:

1) See if the argument involves Jews, Israel, or someone who supports either of them

2) If it does, proceed under the assumption that the criticism and by extension, the person criticizing, are hideously anti-semitic.

3) Write an article stating that any criticism of anyone who happens to be Jewish, or of the state of Israel, is little more than disguised neo-nazism.

4) Bask in self-righteousness     

To the OP: If you're interested in the subject, I'd suggest getting The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, 9/11 Contradictions and Debunking 9/11 Debunking...after reading those 3, all of this 'debunking' nonsense by Poptech will appear in a very ridiculous light, trust me:D

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 150 Contributor
Posts 256
Points 3,965
kiba replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 6:58 PM

Meh. I believe government is too incompetent to pull off a terrorist attack. It is all impossible.

They do happens to gain a lot from the attacks, though.

That being said, it is very easy to massacre lot of civilians with machine guns and pipe bombs, given enough time and not enough civilian defenses. Just buy a machine  gun on the black market and walk into a mall and start shooting everyone on sight.

Individuals do not produce enough security for themsleves.

http://libregamewiki.org - The world's only encyclopedia on free(as in freedom) gaming.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 75 Contributor
Male
Posts 428
Points 7,840

Poptech:

This is all nonsense and long ago debunked.

Unraveling Anti-Semitic 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (PDF) (The Anti-Defamation League)

ADL ?  All they do for a living is slander people.  They are not a source to be trusted.

As a side thought, why do we have neocons posting here?  Both this guy and Natalie.

 

Semper Fidelis

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,493
Points 28,535
Moderator

Poptech:

This is all nonsense and long ago debunked.

Unraveling Anti-Semitic 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (PDF) (The Anti-Defamation League)

Am I going to believe a propaganda piece by a special interest group, or a pile of legitimate reporting done by the likes of the Sunday Herald, the Washington Post, the Philadelphia Times Herald, Fox News, Le Monde, and Die Zeit? Are the editorial boards and journalists of all those news outlets "anti-Semites?"

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 1,493
Points 28,535
Moderator

nirgrahamUK:

krazy kaju:
2. It is very improbable that a group of third world terrorists would have the ability to organize a massive terrorist attack against the United States.

it was a lowtech attack wasnt it? its not like the hijackers had the technical knowhow to construct aircraft from scratch. they merely used physical force aboard aircrafts to gain control of the flight.. its not like third world hijackers have not hijacked hundreds of planes aside from 9/11. the 'massivity' is only a function of several teams of hijackers doing their hijacks at simultaneously, and picking highvalue ramming targets...

So you believe that it is probable for a few men to take over an airplane with boxcutters?

DD5:
Just for the mere consistency, you can’t attribute such competence to governments only when it comes to conspiracy theories. It really isn’t that difficult to cause harm on a massive scale to US citizens or any citizens. The myth of national defense is after all, really a myth.

It is clear that you have not read the articles I posted. Had you read them, you would have realized that multiple implications could be drawn. For example, Israeli intelligence could have failed in warning US agencies or Israeli intelligence could have deliberately not warned US agencies.

Moreover, only because government is incompetent doesn't mean that it has not successfully trained, funded, or otherwise helped cells of terrorists and revolutionaries.

kiba:

Meh. I believe government is too incompetent to pull off a terrorist attack. It is all impossible.

They do happens to gain a lot from the attacks, though.

That being said, it is very easy to massacre lot of civilians with machine guns and pipe bombs, given enough time and not enough civilian defenses. Just buy a machine  gun on the black market and walk into a mall and start shooting everyone on sight.

Individuals do not produce enough security for themsleves.

You are another one who has failed to read what I have posted in the OP. The articles do not claim that Israel, or any other government, committed the terrorist attacks, they claim that there was a large Israeli spy network in the United States prior to 9/11 that supposedly had knowledge of an impending attack.

  • | Post Points: 50
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 112
Points 1,315
BioTube replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 9:14 PM

Poptech, the Mossad is one of the most dangerous government agencies there is. At the very least, convincing a few otherwise peaceful Arabs to fly planes into US targets and leave just the right breadcrumbs is definitely within their abilities.

Keynes must've been a fan of Brave New World; why else would he write a book about its economics?

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 75 Contributor
Posts 534
Points 9,945
DD5 replied on Mon, Sep 14 2009 10:41 PM

krazy kaju:

DD5:
Just for the mere consistency, you can’t attribute such competence to governments only when it comes to conspiracy theories. It really isn’t that difficult to cause harm on a massive scale to US citizens or any citizens. The myth of national defense is after all, really a myth.

It is clear that you have not read the articles I posted. Had you read them, you would have realized that multiple implications could be drawn. For example, Israeli intelligence could have failed in warning US agencies or Israeli intelligence could have deliberately not warned US agencies.

Moreover, only because government is incompetent doesn't mean that it has not successfully trained, funded, or otherwise helped cells of terrorists and revolutionaries.

I saw the Fox report.  The fact that they (Israelis detained) failed polygraph tests indicate to me that this is all nonsense!  Polygraph tests are BS and are only useful against those who actually believe they are effective.  If they were really agents, they should have been able to pass such tests very easily.

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 5,188
Points 88,290
Juan replied on Tue, Sep 15 2009 1:27 AM
You are a bunch of homegrown terrorists. Please turn yourself in to Vaterland Homeland Security ASAP.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 4,094
Points 65,835
Moderator

krazy kaju:
So you believe that it is probable for a few men to take over an airplane with boxcutters?

do you believe the minimum number of men needed to take over a plane is in the dozens? i don't

can you think of a superior weapon for the job than boxcutters? i can't

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 200 Contributor
Posts 181
Points 3,010
Seph replied on Tue, Sep 15 2009 2:29 AM

nirgrahamUK:
can you think of a superior weapon for the job than boxcutters? i can't

...therefore it's probable? 

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 200 Contributor
Posts 130
Points 2,585
Arvin replied on Tue, Sep 15 2009 3:08 AM

abannaberry :

Hi.........................

I realized your comment in this forum site its a very fantastic news in this site and helpfull.

Thanks.



The Ab Rocket
colon cleanse 3000

How very polite of you! :)

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 601
Points 13,045
Poptech replied on Tue, Sep 15 2009 6:15 AM

krazy kaju:
So you believe that it is probable for a few men to take over an airplane with boxcutters?

Why not? Were the passengers or the pilots armed? The terrorists actually killed people with the box cutters. But you forget they didn't just have box cutters they also said they had a bomb. Now since all other hijackings resulted in negotiations before why would the pilots or passengers risk blowing the plane up they were flying on? Now once the passengers of United 93 realized that they were going to die because they found out the other hijacked planes were crashed into the WTC or the Pentagon they took the chance.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

  • | Post Points: 20
Page 1 of 2 (36 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS

Ludwig von Mises Institute | 518 West Magnolia Avenue | Auburn, Alabama 36832-4528

Phone: 334.321.2100 · Fax: 334.321.2119

contact@Mises.org | webmaster | AOL-IM MainMises

Mises.org sitemap