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Are other people in a" matrix"?

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nandnor Posted: Thu, Sep 10 2009 2:52 PM

What do you think? The worldview of libertarian anarchists is so radically different from other people, that even trying to explain it and its implications to them gets the "is this guy nuts" look more often than not. It really feels like everyone is brainwashed, including the people who are the brainwashers and keeping the system afloat.

DO people want to be brainwashed and not have to critically analyze their political philosophy and prefer  to abandon logical thinking on their free will  in order to maintain conformity with others over the unnerving truth? IF ends are determined by reason, how can people use reason to reach the conclusion that reason should be ignored?

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Remember the scene in the matrix about the girl in the red dress? Thats how I feel talking to most people, they will defend that system which enslaves them.

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nandnor:
What do you think? The worldview of libertarian anarchists is so radically different from other people, that even trying to explain it and its implications to them gets the "is this guy nuts" look more often than not. It really feels like everyone is brainwashed, including the people who are the brainwashers and keeping the system afloat.

Which is why it is important to listen to what oother people say, and to discuss aspects of liberty relative to their own experiences.

nandnor:
DO people want to be brainwashed and not have to critically analyze their political philosophy and prefer  to abandon logical thinking on their free will  in order to maintain conformity with others over the unnerving truth?

Anarchism requires a major shift in perspective.  You have to be willing to admit that you were wrong.  That the people you love and respect may be wrong.  We're simply not socialized to operate independently.  Most people follow the herd.   That's part of our evolution.  Dr. Block has been talking about this quite a bit recently.

Because we don't have an anarchist society, right now, being an anarchist is a lot about talk, and little about action.  People are more easily swayed if they could see wealthy, healthy happy anarchists doing their own thing.  When that occurs (and it is coming) things will move much quicker.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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Stranger replied on Thu, Sep 10 2009 3:48 PM

The reason that free enterprise works is because it only requires one visionary to start a major change. If he had to convince everyone to get on board, it would never get done. People believe in a new idea when they see it work, not before.

Why should it be different for politics?

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Magnus replied on Thu, Sep 10 2009 4:08 PM

A similar question has been on my mind recently: Are we wakers in a dream world or are we dreamers in a waking world?

Maybe we are both.

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Magnus:

A similar question has been on my mind recently: Are we wakers in a dream world or are we dreamers in a waking world?

Maybe we are both.

I don't know what you are...but I'm a dancer

'It is difficult to imagine any normal person wishing to meet Marx for a third time.' - Alexander Gray, The Socialist Tradition

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by not listening...

"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe

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filc replied on Thu, Sep 10 2009 4:35 PM

I like to think of it like Pink Floyd's the wall. People build up physiological fortresses and they are always extremely emotionally painful to tear down. It's not easy for people to discover that their entire moral premise has been flawed. They would rather ignore the inconvenient facts and live in their own fairy tales. We all go through this to some extent. I think we all live in our own fortress to an extent, figuratively speaking.

 This is why political and religious debates always end up being ad hominem. People do not have the intellectual capacity to defend themselves and have not responsibly taken the time to learn what they believe, therefore instead just get to petty name calling. I think this is pretty common for many people. 

 

Statism is a religion.

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Yes, everybody else is a pro-state, brainwashed idiot. You're one of the few enlightened individuals in the world because you're read some libertarian works. The world is going to hell because everybody is too stupid to listen to one of the grand prophets of anarcho-capitalism.

Seriously, get over yourself. People disagree with you, and if you're a Rothbardian, they're got some bloody good grounds on which to do so.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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Giles would prefer if Rothbardian Libertarians would refrain from rocking the Boettke.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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nirgrahamUK:

Giles would prefer if Rothbardian Libertarians would refrain from rocking the Boettke.



Ha Ha!

...wordplay.

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GilesStratton:
Yes, everybody else is a pro-state, brainwashed idiot.

Well, there are the people who are just looters and know it.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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Define looters? Look, there are people who would be some of the biggest tax producers in Hoppe's system who have nonetheless benefitted from the state through regulation, other forms of rent seeking and perhaps most importantly being on the receiving end of Federal Reserve money. The funny thing is, I bet if you went through the recipients of the bailout money you'd see that most of them were net tax producers.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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GilesStratton:
Look, there are people who would be some of the biggest tax producers in Hoppe's system who have nonetheless benefitted from the state through regulation, other forms of rent seeking and perhaps most importantly being on the receiving end of Federal Reserve money. The funny thing is, I bet if you went through the recipients of the bailout money you'd see that most of them were net tax producers.

Right, but that is a strawman of Hoppe's position, and you know it.  C'mon Giles, you will have to do better.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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yoshimura replied on Thu, Sep 10 2009 7:07 PM

liberty student:
Most people follow the herd.   That's part of our evolution.  Dr. Block has been talking about this quite a bit recently.

May you please provide some of those talks?

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yoshimura:
May you please provide some of those talks?

Check his media page here at LvMI and the MisesMedia Youtube channel.  I consume about 3 hours of Austrian MP3s and videos a day, almost every day, and I can't remember specific files.

I know he brought up Sociobiology on his recent radio appearances (not the one most recently listed, that one was a crappy interview with bad sound).  He may have brought it up at the recent Mises Circle.  I know he brought it up during his talk at Loyola NO which was a follow up to his controversial talk at Loyola MD.

Sorry I can't be more help.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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Kakugo replied on Fri, Sep 11 2009 2:46 AM

I wouldn't talk about brainwashing. Brainwashing implies a previous existing state of mind. People are brought up this way from the cradle. How? Compulsory schooling and increasingly sanitized mass medias. That's it.

Also there's no need for high philosophy: all people would have to do is worry about their own savings and ask why instead of getting richer we are actually getting poorer by the year. That's it. If people aren't able to think with their money they deserve to be punished. Sadly we are getting caught in the crossfire.

 Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!

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Stranger:

People believe in a new idea when they see it work, not before.

If that was true, they wouldn't believe what they do now.

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nandnor:

What do you think? The worldview of libertarian anarchists is so radically different from other people, that even trying to explain it and its implications to them gets the "is this guy nuts" look more often than not. It really feels like everyone is brainwashed, including the people who are the brainwashers and keeping the system afloat.

DO people want to be brainwashed and not have to critically analyze their political philosophy and prefer  to abandon logical thinking on their free will  in order to maintain conformity with others over the unnerving truth? IF ends are determined by reason, how can people use reason to reach the conclusion that reason should be ignored?

"

article: "9/11 Video Fakery, Government, The Matrix and Your Freedom"

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scineram replied on Sat, Sep 12 2009 12:54 PM

Kakugo:
Also there's no need for high philosophy: all people would have to do is worry about their own savings and ask why instead of getting richer we are actually getting poorer by the year. That's it.

We are getting richer by the year.

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