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U.S. 12th graders

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wilderness Posted: Mon, Sep 7 2009 8:24 PM

here's what a teacher gave as an assignment to answer the question:  "What is the purpose of government?"

answers for the most part ended up in these categories.  this is not the complete rundown, but a brief overview of all the answers provide this is how the total outcome would have developed.  the teacher did not provide these categories it just so happened these are how the answers fell:

Control Economy:  20

Establish Order (provide laws; checks and balances): 15

Protect Country: 14

control: 9

Protect citizens rights (rights as human beings): 9

Enforce laws: 8

safety and health of citizens: 6

keep country running efficiently (infrastructure): 5

organization: 4

keep world in check (less chaotic; help control foreign affairs): 3

Education: 2

Represent ideas of majority: 2

environment: 1

keep world safe: 1

Preamble: 1

 

* one student said the purpose of government is to hand out free money when a crisis happens (their words)...lol, oh God.

"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe

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Fluery replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 10:42 PM

I'm curious, what did you say? Protect citizens rights? (rather contradictory!)

 

By the way, I'm amazed you're only a year older than me. You have pretty nice posts usually.

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Natalie replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 11:13 PM

Funny, the founders actually thought the rights should be protected from the government :)

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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Juan replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 11:19 PM
That's why the slave owning oligarchs founded a government ? To protect rights from government ?

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Natalie replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 11:26 PM

No, that's why they wrote the Bill of Rights.

And colonial government had existed before the War of Independence anyway and not everyone was a slaveowner.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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Juan replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 11:29 PM
a bill of rights to protect rights from the government they just founded ?

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Natalie replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 11:33 PM

Juan:
a bill of rights to protect rights from the government they just founded ?

Exactly, to protect against the possible abuse of the power they'd witnessed under the British rule. They were  for limited government, but not anarchists.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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Juan replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 11:39 PM
you mean, they wanted to replace british rule with their own rule ? They didn't oppose tyranny per se, what they were not happy about was the fact that they were subjects of the british crown, not masters of the american 'republic' ?

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Juan:
you mean, they wanted to replace british rule with their own rule ? They didn't oppose tyranny per se, what they were not happy about was the fact that they were subjects of the british crown, not masters of the american 'republic' ?

Bingo.

If you find something evil that wobbles, push it. - Gary North

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Natalie replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 12:27 AM

Juan:
you mean, they wanted to replace british rule with their own rule ? They didn't oppose tyranny per se

They already were largely independent, with some settlements very close to anarchy. They rebeled against the British rule when the King started to interfere with their self-government and violating traditional rights by imposing taxation, persecutions, standing armies, etc. See the Declaration of Independence, a well-regarded libertarian document.

Juan:
what they were not happy about was the fact that they were subjects of the british crown, not masters of the american 'republic' ?

There was no American Republic before the Constitution, but loose conglomerate of colonies united against what they considered the British tyranny. Under the Articles of Confederation the states had the right of veto. Even in the first years after the Constitution it's the individual states that were considered republics rather than the federal government.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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Natalie:

Even in the first years after the Constitution it's the individual states that were considered republics rather than the federal government.

Now that you mention it, what you call "states" in the U.S. are really "provinces".

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Natalie replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 7:53 AM

What do you mean?

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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He means that no longer are they sovereign entities comprising a federation; they are now political fiefdoms of one large entity.

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Fluery:

I'm curious, what did you say? Protect citizens rights? (rather contradictory!)

I know these are what the students themselves thought up.  They are rather ill-informed.  I know the teacher and she goes line by line through the Constitution and begins with a little political philosophy with the contrasting views of Hobbes and Locke.  She defines terms such as "nature" or "liberty" in accord with natural theory of a libertarian view, such that liberty is being able to act without coercive interference, etc...  She also brings up how governments are not necessarily a must according to some people.  So she comes at government with a critical perspective both on what the Constitution says, how current politicians are not following it, and then even brings up a debate on why do people even need a government - all to get them thinking and stimulate more critical thought/opinions.  It creates quite a stir from what I understand and opens up the students to not be afraid to share their diverse views.  This assignment was the first one just to see what kind of perspective the students already have about government.

There's no doubt in my mind a correlation exists between "Control Economy" and what's been on the news since last September.

"I used to see a mountain as a mountain.. Thereafter.. when I saw a mountain; lo! it was not a mountain.. yet now of final tranquillity: I see a mountain just as a mountain as I used to.." - Master Yuan; molon labe

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E.g., Ontario is a province of Canada, essentially the same as Texas with respect to the federal government.

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Saan replied on Thu, Sep 10 2009 6:41 AM

Caley McKibbin:

E.g., Ontario is a province of Canada, essentially the same as Texas with respect to the federal government.

A better comparison is the State of Hessen to Berlin.

American States still defy the central government and get away with it.

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm

 "...The post-totalitarian system contrives to force life into its most probable states...This system serves people only to the extent necessary to ensure that people will serve it

Vaclav Havel

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Kakugo replied on Thu, Sep 10 2009 7:15 AM

Well, given how easily people are being convinced Bernanke and Trichet saved them from "financial Armageddon" by inflating like there's no tomorrow (and there won't be, I am becoming more pessimistic by the day) I would say that compulsory schooling is another area of government which works just fine in turning normal persons into drooling drones a step removed from lobotomy. Trust me, I've taught recovery courses for years and school isn't geared up to teach but to indoctrinate. In that respect, as usual, the private sector cannot compare with the State.

 Yes, it's time for the Dr Goebbels show!

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Kakugo:

In that respect, as usual, the private sector cannot compare with the State.

Only in the sense that the private sector isn't allowed to kidnap everyone 6-18.

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scineram replied on Thu, Sep 10 2009 1:17 PM

Saan:
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2009/billhtml/HB0246.htm

This is not defying shit.

Let me know when they raid a federal prison freeing Montana citizens.

 

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