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Does general welfare give citizens less incentive to work or produce?

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Democracy for Breakfast posted on Sun, Sep 6 2009 2:26 PM

Does General Welfare give citizens a lot less incentive to work or produce capital? I'm unsure what to think of this, because my mother is a single parent, and has supported us mostly off of General Welfare and Child Support before she got a job. She had no more then an associates degree in College, so it was hard to find a good income.

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Democracy for Breakfast:

Does General Welfare give citizens a lot less incentive to work or produce capital? I'm unsure what to think of this, because my mother is a single parent, and has supported us mostly off of General Welfare and Child Support before she got a job. She had no more then an associates degree in College, so it was hard to find a good income.

The most basic argument against welfare is that a family that survives under welfare has less incentive to increased productivity.  It no longer becomes a question of survival vs. death, since the State eliminates the most dangerous threat to a lack of productivity.  On the other hand, every individual is different, and so this in no way is a rule.  But, it generally remains true.  In the case of your mother, it is possible (although, obviously I do not know better than you, so I could be completely off the market) that welfare made it less necessary for her to further her education to get a higher paying job.

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The issue was, she couldn't be a full time student because she has two other kids to look after. I'm 18, but my two younger siblings aren't, and at the time one of them was still in Elementary School.

She had a job as an assistant to students with major physical and mental disabilties, but she lost that job to volunteers. She now works as a cashier at a Grocery Store, and even then our budget is still a nightmare sometimes because of her getting her hours cut, and the prices going up.

With the recession, things just get a lot worse.

The problem with where I live, is that its almost IMPOSSIBLE to find work no matter how hard you try. I've experienced this myself, I've applied, and shown up at that Grocery store several times and not once have they considered me for an interview. I've had a job set up at the Gas Station, to work a night shift, but the hiring freeze here screwed me over.

I applied at a local restraunt where mostly wealthy people dine. I don't know why I didn't get the job, but 2-3 days later the person told me that they had filled up, when they said all of their employees had left for college.

I went into Wal-Mart in this area, only to find out they were only hiring people for temporary work, and that they would take the very best from there into the store. I didn't even give that one a chance it was only to be temporary for store renovation. I needed a STABLE job.

Then I went to Gamestop, i had an interview, and I got a call back saying I didn't get the job since they extended the offer to someone more qualified.

It isn't always that it gives less incentive to work, its just that for some people, like me its really hard to find a stable job and an income to support yourself. For others, its nearly impossible to make it on Blue Collar jobs no matter how hard they work.

I don't know what to think about Minimum Wage and the Job Market, because Business' obviously won't lower their standards to higher more employees. Even if they do, they get away with giving you a lower then average payment which you would be unable to live off of.


In refute though, I can easily blame The Income Tax, Medicare, Social Security Tax on paychecks as well as illegal immigrants, minimum wage laws, and affimative action.

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Democracy for Breakfast:
I don't know what to think about Minimum Wage and the Job Market, because Business' obviously won't lower their standards to higher more employees.

I'd imagine part of the reason you can't find a stable job are the minimum wage laws. Without them you would be free to offer to accept lower wages, making it more likely for Wal-Mart, or a restaurant to take you on.

 

My point is nicely illustrated by this cartoon.

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Fluery:

Democracy for Breakfast:
I don't know what to think about Minimum Wage and the Job Market, because Business' obviously won't lower their standards to higher more employees.

I'd imagine part of the reason you can't find a stable job are the minimum wage laws. Without them you would be free to offer to accept lower wages, making it more likely for Wal-Mart, or a restaurant to take you on.

 

My point is nicely illustrated by this cartoon.

 

While there is truth to what you say, we can sit and bitch about how the minimum wage laws make it difficult all we want. The fact is, I need a job, and its likely the Obama Administration wont change the policy. Or rather, its unlikely they will be removed any time without liberal propaganda pointing the finger at you for "Not caring about helping people" and being heartless with evil intentions.

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Democracy for Breakfast:

Does General Welfare give citizens a lot less incentive to work or produce capital? I'm unsure what to think of this, because my mother is a single parent, and has supported us mostly off of General Welfare and Child Support before she got a job. She had no more then an associates degree in College, so it was hard to find a good income.

Well, talking about your mother, she had to overcome two different things.  First of all may have been less incentive to find work.  I am sure it goes without saying, that if she did not have the welfare, she would have gotten a job, no matter what it paid. 

But the second problem was her inability to find good paying work.  This problem was also caused by the state.  Licensing laws are very harmful to the poor and unskilled.  She could not just open up a medical practice, for example.  There are also the zoning laws and regulations.  She probably could not just open up a bakery from her house and start selling stuff.  The government does a lot of things to make market entry way more difficult than it should be.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Spideynw:

Democracy for Breakfast:

Does General Welfare give citizens a lot less incentive to work or produce capital? I'm unsure what to think of this, because my mother is a single parent, and has supported us mostly off of General Welfare and Child Support before she got a job. She had no more then an associates degree in College, so it was hard to find a good income.

Well, talking about your mother, she had to overcome two different things.  First of all may have been less incentive to find work.  I am sure it goes without saying, that if she did not have the welfare, she would have gotten a job, no matter what it paid. 

But the second problem was her inability to find good paying work.  This problem was also caused by the state.  Licensing laws are very harmful to the poor and unskilled.  She could not just open up a medical practice, for example.  There are also the zoning laws and regulations.  She probably could not just open up a bakery from her house and start selling stuff.  The government does a lot of things to make market entry way more difficult than it should be.

 

Doesn't it make sense to require a license to open up your own medical practice? We gotta make sure the lives of our people are well taken care of.

 

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Democracy for Breakfast:
Doesn't it make sense to require a license to open up your own medical practice?

No.  Why should I not be able to go to an unlicensed doctor?

Democracy for Breakfast:
We gotta make sure the lives of our people are well taken care of.

There is no reason to believe that licensing ensures people are well taken care of.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Licensing ensures that service will be worse and more expensive for the simple fact it constricts supply.

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Caley McKibbin:

Licensing ensures that service will be worse and more expensive for the simple fact it constricts supply.

I was sure that licensing is recognizing that the person has a high enough education to qualify for that job. Like, you wouldn't want someone running a medical practice with no more then a High School degree.

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And if that man had been the apprentice of a doctor for years?

Keynes must've been a fan of Brave New World; why else would he write a book about its economics?

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BioTube:

And if that man had been the apprentice of a doctor for years?

Thats different, but wheres the proof that he was?

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Fluery replied on Mon, Sep 7 2009 10:50 PM

Democracy for Breakfast:
Doesn't it make sense to require a license to open up your own medical practice? We gotta make sure the lives of our people are well taken care of.

What do you mean, "our people"?

 

And I certainly would not visit an unlicensed, uncertified doctor. I'd imagine there would be some kind of mainstream, trusted certifying agency that issued certificates to doctors deemed worthy. Consumers would likely want that so they know who is reliable or not.

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Democracy for Breakfast:
I was sure that licensing is recognizing that the person has a high enough education to qualify for that job. Like, you wouldn't want someone running a medical practice with no more then a High School degree.

Again, why should I not have the choice to do business with someone that is not licensed?

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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Fluery:
And I certainly would not visit an unlicensed, uncertified doctor.

People used them all the time before there were licensing laws, and they did just fine.

At most, 5% of the population would need to stop complying to bring down the government.

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