On Human Nature

re: On Human Nature

Chris — Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:38:45 GMT

I don't get it. You say "The fact that we must function within the confines of nature does not mean that our actions are causally predetermined in the absolute." Does that mean its random? Isn't it either caused by something or random? I remember being taught that theres no such thing as true random. And wouldn't that screw with causality?

re: On Human Nature

Thorsmitersaw — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 07:19:51 GMT

"Of course, none of this validates the premises of the determinists. The fact that we must function within the confines of nature does not mean that our actions are causally predetermined in the absolute."

Why?

"Nor does it mean that we are entirely bound by our instincts. We possess a capacity to defy our insticts. "

Could it just be part of that same predetermined flaoting around of molecules that gives us that ability?

"If this were not so, men would mount every woman they see, noone would go on fasts and noone would commit suicide. Humans possess volition; the capacity of self-awareness. While the individual's faculties are determined by biology, their use of those faculties is up to them."

Aren't the 'they' jsut a pile of molecules though?

re: On Human Nature

Juan — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:04:03 GMT

I think that, if anything, children are naturally 'libertarian'. It is, or it should be young people the ones to oppose the old order.

re: On Human Nature

Brainpolice — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:38:47 GMT

I'm mostly working with my experience from debating determinists online and elsewhere. I cannot help but conclude that they denigrate the role or scope of human reason. But I will gladly find some official determinist sources if you give me the time.

re: On Human Nature

Torsten — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:38:27 GMT

Could you also give some names and texts of these radical determinists so that we can test what they said ourself?

re: On Human Nature

martinf — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:44:00 GMT

Yes, that's a goot point to make in favor of your "theory".

Just some spontaneous thoughts:

I would personally hold the view of the inherent negative tendency. When we are born, we naturally tend to do things that after doing them, we are told they're wrong. A child learns this way what's wrong and right: test and error process. But, although children can be said what's wrong, they might repeat it again and again. They are usually very stubborn and try to get what they want, whatever they need to do.

It is true that they recognize "yours vs. mine", but, do they respect it? They might fight against the other child in order to get what they want (say, a toy). There is, of course, a learning process through childhood. But, it would seem that the first reactions of a child are "bad". So, there might be an inherent negative tendency that should be offset through time. Nevertheless, that tendency will always last and keep inside ourselves.

Anyway, I'm conscious that adult behavior could not be explained by these arguments. I was just thinking a bit randomly.

re: On Human Nature

Brainpolice — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:26:35 GMT

Well children are not fully developed yet, so certainly such an arguement would not be valid to describe the behavior of adults. But while children may be little brats sometimes, they also start to rather intuitively recognize a "yours vs. mine" dychotomy fairly early.

Education and experience certainly can offest negative tendencies. I'm not too informed on Jewish philosophy though, even though my mother is Jewish. I suppose good parenting obviously plays a role in keeping such tendencies at bay.

re: On Human Nature

martinf — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:45:13 GMT

Hi Brainpolice. Good points. I would like to ask your opinion about an argument that is made supporting the view of human beings as inherently bad: it is said that THIS is proven by the behaviour of children, meaning that they are too selfish and only think of themselves, they don't mind hurting others.. etc. maybe you've heard about this.

And what you think of seeing human beings as possesing a tendency to evil, that can be offset through life: education, experience, etc. I think that this view is held by Jewish philosophy.

Thanks for your thoughts.

re: On Human Nature

Brainpolice — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:51:53 GMT

Ha. I've always thought that a determinist is being hypocritical in even trying to debate you. If their theory is true, it would be no different then placing two television sets in front of eachother.

re: On Human Nature

IrishOutlaw — Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:40:33 GMT

"Determinists, particularly biological determnists, seem to make the error of thinking that nature dominates humans in the absolute."

And they irritate me in the process. If I hear one more time that the Self Ownership Principle is contradictory, I am going to snap.