http://mises.org/Community/blogs/brainpolice/archive/2007/12/22/the-decline-of-morality-in-the-west.aspxI believe in objective secular morality, founded on reason and universalism. I think a common mistake is the idea that if we ditch religion, we must fall back on moral relativity. Then the religious people feed on this and get to accuse secular peopleenCommunityServer 2008.5 SP2 (Build: 40407.4157)http://mises.org/Community/blogs/brainpolice/archive/2007/12/22/the-decline-of-morality-in-the-west.aspx#7875Sat, 29 Dec 2007 03:17:19 GMT944abf2b-d1be-4bf2-990d-438cb0e377e9:7875Brainpolice<p>My premise here is similar to what Buttler Shaffer argues in the book &quot;Calculated Chaos&quot;. </p> <div style="clear:both;"></div><img src="http://mises.org/Community/aggbug.aspx?PostID=7875" width="1" height="1">http://mises.org/Community/blogs/brainpolice/archive/2007/12/22/the-decline-of-morality-in-the-west.aspx#7400Tue, 25 Dec 2007 02:08:11 GMT944abf2b-d1be-4bf2-990d-438cb0e377e9:7400Brainpolice<p>So faith is primary over reason? Maybe I'm just too much of an Objectivist, rational egoist type. I think that reason should be the primary, and to base morality on divine revelation, utility or political tradition leads to moral deprivation. I don't think one can be virtuous without rational self-interest. </p> <p>My main gripe is with sacrificing one's individual identity to collective constructs, and that an appeal to the authority of deities has simply been replaced by an appeal to the authority of governments and social groups. And this has lead to a crisis of meaning by which people have abandoned rational self-interest and chosen to sacrifice themselves in the name of imaginary secular gods.</p> <div style="clear:both;"></div><img src="http://mises.org/Community/aggbug.aspx?PostID=7400" width="1" height="1">http://mises.org/Community/blogs/brainpolice/archive/2007/12/22/the-decline-of-morality-in-the-west.aspx#7356Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:57:27 GMT944abf2b-d1be-4bf2-990d-438cb0e377e9:7356Patricia Halliday<p>This article misses the boat entirely! &nbsp;You don't become moral because you value yourself or have some great ability to reason. &nbsp;&quot;I understand in order that I believe&quot; &nbsp;has been proven to lead to elitism and even a return to primitivism. &nbsp;&quot;I believe in order that I understand&quot; leads to a civilization of morality. &nbsp;The belief these quotes are refering to is in the Triune God. &nbsp;They knew that only by this authority a moral people could grow, civilize and prosper unto life.</p> <div style="clear:both;"></div><img src="http://mises.org/Community/aggbug.aspx?PostID=7356" width="1" height="1">