Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

Sringtime916 — Sun, 22 Mar 2009 18:14:00 GMT

Good thoughts Brainpolice2...

let me add that Sloth can be both good and bad... not simply laziness and natural desire for rest. Our desire to do things in ways that take less time and effort is basically the desire for efficiency... Why use a hoe when you can have a horse pull a plow? why have a horse pull a plow when you can use a tractor? Why use Cow Manure when you can use genetic modification of plant life. The Laziness humans have... the desire to escape work by physical effort, is that has given humanity the ability to live to the ripe old age of 78 (on average, usually higher sometimes) However note that this sloth is sloth of the body

I know you have a dislike of objectivists... I have to agree with Rand that the ultimate evil any person or society can commit is sloth of the mind... the refusal to think or the refusal to exert your OWN effort in the process of thinking and problem solving. Is probably at the root of humanities Mooching and true laziness.

Another way of putting it is this. If you're too lazy to walk or ride a bike to work, there's no sin in driving a car. But there can be no moral justification for demanding someone provide you with the technology of that Car for nothing in return but... say.. a federal law backed by a death ultimatum.

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

exile — Fri, 12 Sep 2008 19:23:51 GMT

Most of what I want to say has been covered by earlier commenters, but I wanted to point out one serious problem with your exposition on the 7 deadly sins: pride, avarice, lust, anger, gluttony, envy and sloth. The sin does not lie in the act alone, the sin arises when the these emotions define our character. We can be proud of our accomplishments, but we cannot use this pride to elevate ourselves above others. It is good to rest, but it is not good to be lazy. It is good to desire the opposite sex but not to let those emotions interfere with respectful desires.

Bottom line is that the act itself is not sinful, but rather overindulging the act itself makes it so.

Judeo-Christian morality matches liberty perfectly. Heidelberg Catechism Q&A 1 states: "...I am not my own, but belong with body and soul, both in life and in death, to my faithful Saviour Jesus Christ" (summarized from 1 Corinthians 6 and Romans 14). That is to say, no other human being, be (s)he pope, king, pastor, president, best friend, anyone - nobody owns your life and likewise you certainly do not own anybody else's. Free-will is a gift to you to accept whatever is good and reject whatever is evil.

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

Joann — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:18:32 GMT

I agree with a lot of what this Blog is saying. As a Christian, I am still struggling with my faith because I feel as though others are imposing their values and beliefs on me and condemning me for not agreeing with them or measuring up to what they want from me, making me feel as though everything I do is wrong and nothing I do is right, and making me into something I'm not (despite my faith and lack of desire to leave it, I've always considered myself a free-thinking non-conformist who isn't afraid to think for myself or do my own thing). I don't leave my faith because I've been conditioned into fearing Hell if I do, and now I think it's become my only reason for staying, which makes me wonder if I truly love God as He loves me. But if God loves me just the way I am and doesn't want me to be something I'm not, then why does my church set such impossible standards for me to follow, condemn me or make me feel guilty for falling short of God's glory or for not following through, throw Fire & Brimstone and constantly remind me time and again that I am a sinner, then turn around and tell me that we are all human and we all sin? Why is my hope of true salvation always dashed with hellfire and condemnation, in other words, if all I am is an imperfect human being who can't possibly live up to all of the expectations that this Blog mentions above? Isn't this a double standard? I have every reason to believe it is. And while I oppose abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and gay marriage/parenting (no apologies here, so, as your Blog says, please accept me for who I am), when it comes to sex, desire, and masturbation, I believe the Christian faith in general, and especially the conservative fundamentalists who seem to hate all things pleasurable and mentally good for us and want to control how we enjoy ourselves sexually, is a bit out of touch with reality in these areas (although I do support the idea of saving oneself for marriage only as long as it is chosen by the individual and not by the church). Christian parents disrupt their children's natural sexual curiosity of their bodies and genitals and condemn infant and childhood masturbation because they are conditioned by their church to believe that these will lead them to sexual immorality later on (this, of course, has never been proven to be true). Teens and young adults are pressured into saving themselves for marriage and to condemn masturbation without being offered any guidance whatsoever on how to control their sexual urges, desires, and thoughts. Marriages suffer, and Christian couples file for divorce, because expectations for a good, solid Christian marriage are too high and unrealistic (how can you expect these couples to keep one another satisfied at all times when they are not always going to feel like making love?). Isn't it any wonder we live in such a screwed up society? I mean, how is it humanly possible for any of us to live (or even maintain a joyful, positive, selfless attitude, for that matter) if we have to constantly think of others while keeping our eye on God at all times, treat what we own as if none of it matters to us (apparently, it is a form of idolatry, and you have to throw it out or get rid of it some other way, if you find yourself spending too much time with it, because you may be placing it ahead of God), and deny ourselves anything and everything that even remotely allows us to feel good about ourselves and our bodies (such as masturbation)? Impossible, I say!

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

texasman — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:36:42 GMT

You make some points, but really only half truths.

There is an afterlife, but we are instructed what to do HERE as well. The idea we just sit around waiting to die is not Biblical. So, while we have hope of an afterlife, if we follow the teachings it does NOT necessarily mean the Earthly life is somehow less.

Free will is a choice. You point out that free will can choose evil. But free will can also choose good, otherwise it would not really be a choice at all. So the fact man has free will is not a bad thing at all, it is what a man choses to do with the free will is the question.

The list of sins are not Biblical, God will use the 10 commandments to judge. But, some of them are the same. You leave out God has a plan for most of these "desires".

Lets take sexual sin. Did you know God wants you to have sex? Did you know God invented sex? Did you know God commands us to have sex? Yes, its in the Bible. And not just for procreation, but all the time. In fact, we are instructed to have sex continously, except for prayer and fasting. So the idea that God or Christians are anti-sex is not Biblical, its just another satanic ploy. God has instructed us to have sex with our wives or husbands with all we have, to totally give yourself to the person. The song of Solomen alludes to oral sex- you name it. The Bible forbids premarital sex and sex outside of marriage. And yes, the Bible sets a high standard, even thinking about sex with someone else other than your partner is forbidden. But is this not the goal of most marriages? Why marry if you want another person? God gives us the perfect outline, we just need to try and follow it.

The rest of your "sins" could be answered in the same way, but you get the idea. The Bible does have a plan, most people don't know what it is because they have never studied the Bible and take what the "world" says "about" the Bible.

Christains are slaves, but to God only. And true Christians will follow his teachings, of love and forgiveness, kindness, and the "golden rule"

It is the unbeliever you should be wary of. He is decieved, he can be tricked into following a man, such as Hitler. And you know what happened from there.

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

Brainpolice — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 22:06:42 GMT

Ripley, I think you're missing the full context of the statement. I'm not predicting that that will be the outcomes, I'm saying that even if those were the outcomes I would be content in the free society nonetheless.

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

Freecitizen — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:22:38 GMT

Wrong, MhRipley, raison d'etre has no raison d'etre in a free society. :-)

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

MhRipley — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 04:15:57 GMT

Absolutely right. It doesn't add up. I can't help but shudder whenever I see someone coming with the opposite argument. But you have made one frivolous comment that needs to be cleared up:

''I'd rather live in a free and prosperous society full of fat slobs who munch on junk food all day than an unfree and unprosperous society where everyone is surprisingly physically fit. ''

What? Are you kidding me? If you look attentively around you, you will see it's more like the other way around, 'cause destructive habits would have no raison d'etre in a truly free world. Right?

Hopefully, you should agree on this one.

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

MsPatriot — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 18:38:08 GMT

Amen. No pun intended. ;-)

These religious precepts demand the impossible and illogical of human nature. When I encounter such presumption I can't help but replacing "sin" with the word "skin" - to crystallize the point. Even if we could do away with skin, as soon as we did so we would all perish and begin decomposition. Nothing about this predicament implies anything beyond death (besides decomposition). The fundamental problem here is that religionists et al have no real comprehension of how they function, what these organs and systems are "designed" to do to keep them alive at all, and so their argument superficially comes off as a no win zero sum game. As a means of exploiting the stupid, however, it's quite brilliant!

re: Judeo-Christian Morality vs. The Free Society

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